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Sentience vs. Sapience

User Thread
 31yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that MugenNoKarayami is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Sentience vs. Sapience
The ability to feel vs. the ability to know.

I was reading on articles that described the final battle of man and machine.

*I can't help but wonder that if this technology is initially applied in a military sense, and if we continue our destructive nature, subjective nature will logically see humans as a threat.

*If this technology is applied in a peaceful sense, meaning a progression towards harmony, gratitude, progression, ego-less mindset, their subjective behavior would ultimately save our civilization due to our positive example.


We have finally come to an age where our actions and decisions with these up and coming technologies will either save us or destroy us. A 21st century mindset is needed if we truly want to pioneer this universe we inhabit. If there are advanced civilizations that share this space, I think they know and have embraced this idea as well, hence their seemingly invisible presence.

Sapient beings such as us must embody a sense of responsibility and knowledge of our actions from the past present and even speculation into the future - if we ever plan on creating a being that exists with intelligence, the information that is or will be input, HAS to be able to distinguish what is "right" and what is "wrong" in any given situation. With the right programming coupled with our logic and reason, the former would always prevail, creating a continuous cycle of logical positivity.




help me out here. my brain is fried and I need some other thoughts.

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"I'm a human being, God Dammit!! My life has value!!!"
 37yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Wyote is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Sounds just like raising a child. We don't think of it that way though, unfortunately.

Actually, technology is entirely a reflection of our own desires. If we create anything before we are ready to take responsibility for it, it will come back to bite us in the ass, one way or another.

Technology will learn whatever we teach it, and respond much the same a human would.

If we apply a sapience constant to the mix, we have a better chance of positive outcomes.

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"A loving heart is the beginning of all knowledge. - Thomas Carlyle"
 48yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Adam Seth God is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
knowledge is basically how to do something
wisdom is basically how to do something right, or not do it

sapience... ooooooo sounds all "collegey"

you labeled the top of your thread
"The ability to feel vs. the ability to know."

feeling and experiencing subjectively is not sapience, of course ... sapience is wisdom... sorry to burst your GURU BUBBLE

Most of the wise prefer the big picture, or OBJECTIVE VIEWPOINT... WHICH IS MORE INTEGRATED WITH THE REST OF REALITY....

As usual Wyote hit the nail - when he should have hit you in the head instead... ha' lol!

take yourself a little less seriously - geezum crowe!

The first thing that happens when one hears a sound is that we experience an emotion, feelings

colors

shapes

wind and other sensations - all the same result...

How I feel ? right and wrong ?

completely unrelated..

Take it from someone who shared in a Business and Ethical Practices Award for the last 40+ years of family business...

your heart should have to answer to your head...
If your head is all right with it, then your heart has to live with it
if your head can't accept it, then your heart should have to live with it...

emotions are .... well, break it down

e

motion

e = negative

motion


subjectivity is good for meditation - (or prayer) - but staying there is stuck on stupid... maybe stop and google the neeto words you come across and Wyote wont have to school you so cooly...

with a lot fewer lines than you used to --- errrr... boing - !

what the hell is all that space talk... can you even fly a plane?

what access do you really believe you'll have in your life time to space travel.. regardless of progress.. ?

wow!

with your misunderstandings and misdirected energy - you should probably just go out and make money, it solves most arguments in relationships...

and hopefully you're in one, or going to be so fortunate one day...

and you'll need a lot more money than you will need strangers/people to bring your lofty vocab into line with the rest of people..

sapient... lol!

it's almost cute... you went from misapplication of the vocab - to space aliens... and how bad we're doing, and how good they'd look at us if we just chose "feelings over knowledge"

Because, of course they've already adopted your views - obviously, because they're "out there" and habitating all over the milky way...

What th' - ?

does every psuedo-philosopher fancy themselves world reformers through some charismatic religion-like diatribe?

maybe yes maybe not...

you need to be careful either way, the aliens are watching your progress

fin'

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"\\\"The Empty Vessel Makes The Most Noise\\\" - Shakespear"
 39yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Chained Wings is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Since as you put it Wyote corrected Mugen, why did you feel the need to correct him again. With a massive massive post detailing his errors?

He came up with an idea, a concept and wanted to share it with others to see what they thought. Not to be corrected or put down for sharing said concept.

Your post only serves to confuse and discourage someone who has allot of bright and interesting ideas.

True, I find your rants against self acclaimed prophets with the IQ and English skills of Borat funny and amusing. (Even if making fun of people like that over the internet is like running in the Special Olympics, they need to be put in their place.)

And allot of your rants do hold some gems of wisdom if one sifts carefully enough.

But please, if all you want to do is make fun of someones vocabulary, don't bother posting unless they are just being lazy and need a kick up the ass to make them write something halfway coherent.

Id like to see this site a place where people who like to think outside the box feel free to come and share their thoughts with like minded individuals because those around them don't get what they are saying.

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"When I was a child I flew! Then as an adult- I watched others soar."
 39yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Chained Wings is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
I remember an episode of the Twilight Zone where a far superior race of beings came to earth and told us they had been watching us for centuries and we were a failed race still in the stone age. Our petty wars and destructive feuds were ludicrous. And that we had just one day to fix our primitive ways or we would be extinguished.

The spokesman for the aliens came back the next day... and all the nations of earth has disbanded their armies, all their nuclear weapons and weapons of mass destruction, had stuck peace deals and historic accords and were quite proud of all that had been done.

But funnily enough, the race of superior beings were a warlike race and they meant that we had failed as warriors and our warlike capabilities were primitive and ludicrous. The superior being beamed up just as the first bombardments began falling.

So whose to say what other races (if there are any) are like. Advancement might not necessarily mean peaceful. And right and wrong is subjective, so whose to say just how we should program AI in the future. We still need to protect ourselves.

If you look at nature, lions kill and eat elks, crocodiles eat zebras, cats eat mice etc etc. This is the way the world is. Our own ideas of right and wrong are different to what nature is- so I believe that as we become more evolved, even though we will likely become more peaceful- just because our way of thinking has changed, it does not mean that the universal laws around us will have too.

So if we did create a sentient machine, we would have to strike balance between the two extremes. To be strong and just. To be nurturing and protecting.

Personally, I don't hold the hope we will last long enough to see a day we can make AI machines. We will have used what technology we have now to wipe ourselves out long before then.

Right now the humans of earth hunt and eat pygmies for their magical powers while at the same time own weapons that could destroy the entire planet. Right now there are people who believe in books that have no scientific proof of their teachings. Who are willing to kill entire races and cultures, all because their own interpretation of such books is that those who do not believe in those books, or who look to science and progress are evil.

Humans need to begin to change on the inside before they can change whats around them. In other words, we need to become more evolved as a species before we can have more evolved technology. Right now we are just a bunch of kids playing with a box of matches. We think we are clever because we have worked out how to strike the match and make the bright hot burny thing. But we are too unevolved and therefore too shortsighted to see the bigger picture.

Its sad we always look to science as some miraculous savior for all our shortcomings, while all the while we sit back and play with our box of matches. And during this time science is so under granted, underfunded, under payed, under manged, undermanned, and only ever given any import when its for military or political purposes.

Do I have a hope for the future? Only if science can save us.
Will Skynet decide we are too destructive to be allowed to live? No. Skynet will never be created. Because we will have done what Skynet would have deducted long before we were able to even begin the first blueprint of it.

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"When I was a child I flew! Then as an adult- I watched others soar."
 48yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Adam Seth God is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
MugenNoKarayami

Often this site is more social than educational ~ I think that may be out of necessity... but check my quote...

quote:


subjectivity is good for meditation - (or prayer) - but staying there is stuck on stupid... maybe stop and google the neeto words you come across and Wyote wont have to school you so cooly...

with a lot fewer lines than you used to --- errrr... boing - !

what the hell is all that space talk... can you even fly a plane?



I'm intellectual enough to try and keep it civil... even sophisticated ~ if someone will afford me that compliment again...

I'm Social enough to know how to rib - I recognize the difference between the "Lab" and the "Locker Room"

I think Chained Chicken is the one taking himself too seriously now... this explanation or "apologia" isn't even for you...

Your young, a good looking young man, (not in any way but like a confident dude would say to another)....

there's no way on EARTH that I took a look at what you write, or how you seem in pictures... and assumed that you have some tormented life that never experienced male commeradery... chiding - joking to make a point instead of just going off some deep end of the moral high ground pool...

Chaind Chicken... cluck you...

you're actually the anti-social one who doesn't reckognize humor...

and on the OFF OFF OFF chance that MugenNoKarayami
contacted you for consoling and you've now come to "his" defense...

excuse the hell out of me - less Lab, more Locker room..
enough of both is more balanced than not...

so...
RIGHT....

And what was that crack about the length of my post...?

what th' - ?

I space and creatively punctuate my writing so it's LEGIBLE to all easily... it's called consideration...

Consideration , at least I know, is NOT complaining about my posts' length, and then! writting a Novella, with an intro that slams me personally...

My perspective is what he was looking for, wittingly or not... it is made more sharp and edifying by your Post and retort -

Chained Wings...

because I'm not even slightly convinced of my own perfection

read that twice...

So -SECONDLY-
with this addendum... which is in now way a retraction of any sort.. it appears I'm not only exposing you to another level of social interaction personally... not through the movies...

you've also afforded me the perfect oppurtunity to make this perfectly clear to the originator of the post...

It barely draws my attention that I have to respond to someone who arbitrarily calls my own posts

RANTS...

Only fit to joust with those with the "IQ of Borat"

Well, you are refined in a way, you've mastered the backhanded compliment that is actually all insult ...

so has my 3 year old daughter.. she even knows how to mock people... really well... I did have to tell her through the tears though...

Cunning is not Intelligent

Although that is the end that most use their intelligence towards..
But if I allowed you to con me... ha' lol!

I'm sure you "mean" well... do mean people mean well..?

That was a good Twilight Zone Episode though...

I was IN the Marine Corps, first Gulf Era, and I happen to think we are a wonderfully advance warlike species... who love to let the blood of enemies into the ground...

balance... and you only get one life... as you

And this site IS for outside and inside the box thinking... not just convincing oneself there is not box... and reframing our lives in false realities, or worse isolating our brilliant thoughts...

when we're not being subjective and taking things personally and assuming others are reacting exactly as we are...

in truth the poster of this thread could have a third and unknown reaction, cultural based or otherwise...

or none... and that would leave our opinions with little tie to anything but their validity on their own basis... no space alien whooey..
only profit in that, is entertainment.. Lucas Arts Level... that's acceptable... lol!


AHHHhhhhhh.... the many contradictions of life and the living
like:
quote:

Personally, I don't hold the hope we will last long enough to see a day we can make AI machines.

Humans need to begin to change on the inside before they can change whats around them. In other words, we need to become more evolved as a species before we can have more evolved technology.

Its sad we always look to science as some miraculous savior for all our shortcomings, while all the while we sit back and play...

Do I have a hope for the future? Only if science can save us.



Look, I get it.. it's in the 'TITLE'

"CHAINED WINGS"... flying around and around us in circles , hovering...

ooOOOOOOOoooo ~ mysterious... mmmm

or just convoluted, non-comittal and forked tounged...

not the appealing application of past works I 've seen mr Wings...

Mr. Wings... see, you might think it insulting if I said - that would make a good hotwings spot's name...

but it would...

and you are convoluted.. to the point of near obscurity..

only when you felt you had the floor from we who
just can't evolve before we kill ourselves..? don't feel attacked...
don't feel anything...! it's an

OPINION..

and this was another won..

eat it

paz'

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"\\\"The Empty Vessel Makes The Most Noise\\\" - Shakespear"
 39yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Chained Wings is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Adam,
I actually don't mind you as a member of these forums, so instead of reply to your post by pulling apart every sentence, quoting it, and tearing it to shreds, as most people tend to do on forums, I will try to clarify what I was getting at.

You say I'm anti social and don't know humor when its in front of me. But what you need to understand is that humor DOES NOT translate well on the internet. You can give someone a compliment and they will tell you to go jump because they think you're being sarcastic. That's the way the internet is. We don't have body language or voice intonation to show a joke or mood when we say what we say.

You need to be aware of this, and that when you "rib" someone online, it usually comes across as insulting.

So basically, regardless of whether you were joking, I decided that what you had written didn't really address Mugens actual topic, but spent more time making fun of him. Whether "ribbing" or not, it didn't actually serve any purpose other than to sound condescending.

Now I know you think I don't have a sense of humor and take myself too seriously. But I do have one. And I know there is time an place for it. Its just in this case it was not the time or place.

I even pointed out to you that there have been times in the past when you have given people a ribbing or just a good ol' fashioned ass kicking, and I said that that is ok.

The comment about Borat was your constant attacks on Nicholas K. (it was also me, the guy who is too serious, BEING HUMOROUS comparing the two.)

But you have to admit, picking on someone like that time and time again even when he hadn't posted for weeks was like picking on a schoolchild.

Perhaps you didn't realize that NikolasK didn't want to start a new religion, he didn't want to rule the world. All he wanted ... was attention. Which you gave to him in abundance. Which was why he kept coming back.

But did I ever tell you to shut up and leave him alone? No. Because there is a time and place for the locker room. And that was the place.

Now as you may have noticed we've had allot of trolling on CC in recent months. Allot of the regular posters have begun posting less and less and there is a general air of negativity about the site. And its sort of getting to me, since I do really love this site.

So when I read what you'd written, I admit it made me annoyed. Which is why I went to the trouble to mention it to you directly.

But what you seem to have not gotten, is that it wasn't vehement or condescending in any way. And if you feel it was then I'm sorry. I know you are a very intelligent man, so I was sure you could read what I wrote as CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM.

I didn't think you'd take it personally. But by your last post it seems I have ruffled your own feathers. (See. Humor. Basic. Very dry. But there.)

I did not write a novella attacking you. I wrote a few paragraphs, which was allot less than you wrote to Mugen attacking him. I then began a totally NEW post dealing with Mugens topic and what I thought about it.

(And I also don't consider a rant a bad thing. I rant allot. So once again you seem to have taken what Ive said the wrong way.)

What you need to do is not look at what I said to you. But the REASON I said it. I even explained it at the end of my post to you.

I want this place top be a place where ppl can come and share ideas, without the put downs (or ribbings) that other sites seem to be so full of. If this was a silly thread and needed humor then I wouldn't have had a problem with anything you said.

I want you to go back and read the whole thread again and see what Im trying to say. Then ask yourself, if you were Mugen, who do you think has been the most helpful and on topic of the two of us?

I wrote a small post to you in frustration at the put downs that have been occurring too often on CC of late. And tried to explain when it was ok to make fun of ppl- and when it was just wasting time and coming across as condescending.

I then wrote a "novella" or "rant" if you will, addressing Mugen's OP.


**************************

Now, as you can see, there are now more, insults, ribbing, and stuff written about how to behave on CC and the right way to act in what threads- than there is on Mugens actual topic itself.

This is my case in point: that when you don't know the time and place to put somebody down or rib them, threads end up going nowhere fast.

And that's what I was trying to tell you from the start.

Know when to rib and know who to rib.

And I guess also know constructive criticism from an all out attack. Because at no time did I mean to insult you.

I hope that you understand what I'm getting at, and I apologize if you took it wrong.

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"When I was a child I flew! Then as an adult- I watched others soar."
Sentience vs. Sapience
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