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God being the generator of space, is beyond space and therefore, can never be imagined

User Thread
 46yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that dattaswami is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
God being the generator of space, is beyond space and therefore, can never be imagined
God being the generator of space, is beyond space and therefore, can never be imagined

The unimaginable God is beyond the four-dimensional model of space and time. You can imagine the dissolution of matter converting into energy filling the space. Subsequently you can imagine the disappearance of energy in the space and the result is final vacuum. But, even if you try for your lifetime, you can never imagine the disappearance of vacuum.

God being the generator of space is beyond space and therefore, can never be imagined. If you have to imagine God, the pre-requisite is the imagination of disappearance of space or vacuum. Of course space is a form of very fine energy and in this context the word energy used by Me can be taken as crude form of energy. The only knowledge about God is that He is beyond the knowledge (Yasyaamatam... Veda).

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 47yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Adam Seth God is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Your "God" is and must be a being like yourself... that's why you capitalize your self reference... (Me)...

Saying god imagining the existence cannot be then concieved of by the creation is like saying a character in a story cannot concieve of the author...

Why not?

To describe a yellow pencil... you must subjugate yourself to the limits of the nouns and the adjectives...

By describing reality or existence your version of "God" has limited "his/her" expression... therefore limited "his/her" perameters...

Of course you will say that this existence is not the limit of the "God"... but this existence is the only evidence you have of anything at all.. you have no other evidence of any other existences...

Therefore

You have no proof of any further expanse of "God" beyond this existence...

"He or She" is limited to the characters of the story "He or She" has decided to tell...

The soul you attempt to mystify with is merely an attempt at an out of body experience for the MIND of human beings...

You cannot set off an atom bomb by thinking however hard about e = mc squared... you must go through the steps to do it...

mystic connectivity to the natural forces through prayer and meditation is likened unto a mild tantrum or fit... however civilized it may be.

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"\\\"The Empty Vessel Makes The Most Noise\\\" - Shakespear"
 28yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Tazzlyn is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
I've had thoughts like that before, because every time I see a picture of the Judeo-Christian God, I think to myself...doesn't it say somewhere that you should not depict said God and that this God is above thought and cannot be conceived or understood on any level of consciousness? I'm not a Biblical scholar or anything, but I think those are mentioned somewhere, like you said.

And it just further led me against the belief of such a God. If this God is beyond said thought and the only thing known about this God is that this God is beyond our perception, then what is the point, exactly? Why even bother acknowledging such a thing? And does it not just make you want to turn the other direction and say the probability of such a God is very small?

This being - who is beyond just being a being, I can't even conceive him, so when I say this, I'm speaking as if I CAN - created everything is all knowing, omnipotent and powerful.........

But you can't conceive this God in any sense.

It makes no sense to me. I just don't think it makes sense -period-. It seems to me, it's proving the likelihood of this God's NONexistance. You're putting this God (in the logical and reasonable person's mind) in a position that compares it in a way that proves dragons, unicorns and jackalopes more likely to exist, because we can actually imagine such things and create an image, a smell, a feel, a taste, a sound...we can use our senses to consider such things to exist, whereas with said God, we can't.

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"Inspire."
 30yrs • F •
midnightpanther is new to Captain Cynic and has less than 15 posts. New members have certain restrictions and must fill in CAPTCHAs to use various parts of the site.
Hmmm... I think what your arguing over is silly.

The base of it is "Does God exist or not?"

"Can he be imagined?" Yes, but whatever you can think of to describe God is only a drop of water in a swimmingpool compared to His greatness. We can never understand or imagine Him completely. The closest any human would ever get to imagining Him would still be just a grain of sand on a beach.

The bible says, and I'm paraphrasing, "if a human were to see and/or understand God, His magnifisence would kill them."

Even if you COULD fathom His magnificence, you wouldn't live to tell anyone about it!

That's why Abraham only saw a burning bush. It was a fraction of a fraction of His power, and yet it caused Abraham, if you'll read, to age som years. He went in a young man and came out looking, maybe, 20 to 40 years older.

The question is silly. Can we fathom God? NO! But that doesn't mean He doesn't exist!! That's like saying "I can't see Scotland from here, so it must not exist."

Ever tried explaining color to someone born blind?
Ever tried to explain sound to someone born deaf?

They can't comprehend it because they have no point of reference. They've never experienced anything even minutely simmilar! To them, It doesn't exist!!

God falls into the same category of unfathomable-ness.

Unless the person born blind can see, they'll never understand the concept of color.

Unless the person born deaf is able to hear for at least a second, they'll never grasp the idea of sound.

Unless you can see God in person, you'll never be able to grasp His enormity.

Stop arguing over silly little things. It just proves how little you know of the overall subject.

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"Just because your an adult, doesn't mean you can be a dumbass."
 42yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that doom123 is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
who's to say god is outside of space and that hes the generator of it, or that hes separate from us at all? maybe individuality is just an illusion. where did you get this information? if he is unimaginable then how do you know the information you are telling us now is right or wrong? if you have an outlook of skepticism i believe that its pointless to discuss because no matter how deep you get into it, its all just a guess and a waste of time.

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"if life has no point whats the point in talking about it?"
 55yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that NATuralMan is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
relax people, this guy is a copy/paste and boogie poster.

I've seen his garbage all over the web, and he is banned from several forums that I post to as well.

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 67yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that cturtle is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
quote:
relax people, this guy is a copy/paste and boogie poster. {/quote]
Well you may be mistaken about the identity of this particular person . . even if the context & web name is the same. On the other hand, if it is the same person then it would seem to be there is something deep motivation at work here? Whether or not this is the original article or a copycat. [quote]who's to say god is outside of space and that hes the generator of it, or that hes separate from us at all? maybe individuality is just an illusion. where did you get this information?
Come now let us not play innocent..
quote:
The bible says, and I'm paraphrasing, "if a human were to see and/or understand God, His magnificence would kill them."
Yes,we are paraphrasing the Christian bible, good thing you made that clear .
quote:
Even if you COULD fathom His magnificence, you wouldn't live to tell anyone about it!

I tend to think that the mind could not be able to hold the vastness of such revelation & therefore one would at best be only able to retain a small portion. Which would 'be comprehensible to others' only a meager portion of that which was retained.
quote:
Ever tried explaining color to someone born blind?
Ever tried to explain sound to someone born deaf?
Yes, I think you make a valid point their.
quote:
You're putting this God (in the logical and reasonable person's mind) in a position that compares it in a way that proves dragons, unicorns and jackalopes more likely to exist, because we can actually imagine such things and create an image, a smell, a feel, a taste, a sound...we can use our senses to consider such things to exist, whereas with said God, we can't.
Ah, Man the great arbitrator of what is or is not, the god of his own manifestation!

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"Terrorist or tyrant, few may come to the Truth that both are poor choice."
 63yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Booky is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
quote:
relax people, this guy is a copy/paste and boogie poster.

I've seen his garbage all over the web, and he is banned from several forums that I post to as well.


Even if the guy is posting that same message in other Forums then that does not disqualify his point.

His posting is NOT "garbage" and he certainly has nothing in the post that would call for banning or deleting it.

To "copy/paste" is an option that everyone has and I do not see that as making anyone into a "boogie poster" as you claim.

Maybe the man is seeking an answer and has not found it yet.

I myself do not know what God is.

I figure we can or could imagine what God is because our imaginations are are vast and powerful - but I do not know of anyone doing it as yet.

We would need some sort of basis in order to imagine it correctly, and we do not have any basis as to what God is.

So I say it is ONLY our limited info and or our confused info that stops our imagination from seeing God.


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"Courage is the key to all advantages."
 31yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Cynic-Al is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
It is the nature of a closed system that it cannot influence whatever is outside it, but it can be influenced by those outside factors. If we look at electronics the current passing through the system cannot control the things around it, though we can control it by turning off the power or adding new sections to the circuit.

Our universe is like that, we cannot visualise what anything the exists outside of universe looks like, because our brains can only imagine things that function within the physics of our universe.

As for the character in the book, of course they can't envisage the author, they may be aware of the author, but only if the author decides to make them so, and even then the character usually exists in a universe similar to our own. However if you try to imagine that your entire life has been the product of another humans imagination, perhaps one with abilities less than possessed by yourself, can you do it?

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"So Schrodinger's Cat is not only neither dead nor alive, but might also be sexually aroused by elbows and peanut butter?"
 35yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that allimar is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Do you realize or could somehow understand (I know you believe everything you were told as a child) that you speak of god as people used to speak about Zeus?
Read the BIBLE, and then observe nature. I will consider you intelligent when you could depict the contradictions you whiteness on an almost daily basis. Only then, will you be able to begin to imagine beyond your knowledge.

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"The more you learn, the less you know."
 31yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Cynic-Al is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
It hardly surprises me that a consideration of the christian god with Zeus would come out with some similarities (it is the nature of religions to consider their main/only god as unfathomably powerful). I don't think it was ever explicitly stated which god was under discussion or whether it was just the average non-anthropomorphic deity on the street that we were considering (paraphrasing from the bible tends to occur as it is the instance of a monotheistic god that the western world is most familiar with). In any case comparisons with Greek, Roman or Norse gods would seem unlikely as they were considered humanoid just with all personality elements a thousand times magnified and the powers that go with being a god (as well as not coming from a monotheistic religion).

If you wish us to consider the discrepancies between what the bible says and what we see happening in the real world then you are spectacularly missing the point of the debate (we are purposefully ignoring that element of religion and purely considering the human ability to fathom a being so far outside the physical rules of our universe that they mean nothing, this being having in fact created them). It is also usually considered a good idea to use a spell checker in any sentence in which you wish to demean the intelligence of others (it's spelt witness, whiteness is a measure of how white something is).

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"So Schrodinger's Cat is not only neither dead nor alive, but might also be sexually aroused by elbows and peanut butter?"
 38yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Squarepants is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
If any one has met god please can you introduce him to me.
People keep talking about god as if he's seperate from reality and how he made every thing. What ever caused this reality is part of the whole of reality.

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"I hungry"
 31yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Cynic-Al is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
What brings you to that conclusion? If we return to the example of an author and the universe he creates to set his story in, he can never physically enter that universe, and his characters can never leave it to enter ours. The author can interact with the characters to tell them things or write an avatar of himself into the story, but he will still be a part of this universe not that of the story.

The creator of a universe must be outside of the rules of that universe, otherwise he would lack the power to change things. So even if a part of them is within the universe a reasonable part of them must exist outside of it, in order to exist outside of the rules.

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"So Schrodinger's Cat is not only neither dead nor alive, but might also be sexually aroused by elbows and peanut butter?"
God being the generator of space, is beyond space and therefore, can never be imagined
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