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If God exisit...why there is so much evil in the world?

User Thread
 32yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Sky1234 is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
If God exisit...why there is so much evil in the world?
i got some question of my own that have been troubled me from times to times. i hope that you all don't find this troublesome, but i struggle with this whenever i think about the existence of God...hope that you all can help me to solve this problem.

**if you don't want to read the whole thing, just skip on to the question part, but if u read it, than thanks, that means a lot to me.**

let me introduce myself a little, as far as religion stands. I WAS a Christian about a year ago, been a christian for almost 4-5 yrs. I, like most Christian, i prayed for bad stuff to go away, thanked god for the goods and believed that there is an almighty, loving, just, creative, adj, adj ....etc lol, but than later on as times goes by, the little brain of mine yearn for more knowledge as "What am i believe in" and "Why should i believe in this 'God'??". I tried to explain a few things...and tried to look for answer myself, but to no avail. I tried to ask some of the Christian friend of mine, but most of them said "well, you know, man are not as smart and wise as god, so we have no idea what is his intension is. If you really want an answer, ask god when you see him, and pray for him for answer."jeez...i hate that answer, its like one of those answer that really didn't answer my question at all. if i can find the answer that easy, i won't be questioning the question which are answered would i!? so there i am, looking for answer and been playing tug of war with myself of weather god exist or not, and i stumbled here wondering,"if God exist...why there is so much trouble in the world?" , and i decided maybe you all can help me...

before i list my questions, i would like to say a few things first.
1)i am not an atheists whom believe in no god at all, but i would keep an open mind to all possibility.
2)my question is not design to challenge Christianity, hope that you would not see them as challenge, but if you are than, isn't those that are the truth can stand to any challenge?
3)i am just an ignorance fool who demand more knowledge, if there is something wrong with what i said, please say so.
4)if i offended you in some way, i apologize in advance.

glad that taken care of...

*********************
**now my first question is "If god is almighty and create all things, can he create a stone that he cannot bear?" *hint: accept the possibility*

if you can't answer to that question, than i think the rest is going to be too hard or uncomfortable for you to understand, leave along trying to solve it.

ok...this is as far as i got in terms of finding the existences of god. and the conversation of my mind doing "the tug of war"

Q: If God is perfect, why is his creation not perfect??
A: He made us perfect at first, but we decided to sin.

Q: Isn't possibility to sin is a flaw?
A: It is, but He loved us, that why he gave us ability to choose. He don't want us to be a robot and just do what we programed to do.

Q: So if something can be flawed, it cannot be perfect at the very start, put into account that god knows the future. So the conclusion is, we are not perfect at the very start and god knows.
A:...

Q: nevermind that, let's get back to topic, is god unable to find a way to give us the ability to choose yet not sin?
A:...

Q: maybe god like the society as it is today or he just don't care, because if he don't like it and care about it than he can find ways to alter it and change it into shapes that he prefers, because god is a almighty god, he can do whatever that he sees best, and i guess that this society is the best that he see.
A: maybe so, maybe god don't want us to be perfect because he don't want us to be equal as him.

Q: if so, that why did he punish us for flaws that he gave us??
A:...

Q: So just because he don't want us to be equal as him,he allow deficiency exist, which lead to suffering, which as classify as evil? at the end, he allow evil to exist?
A: He allow evil to exist because out of it, it produce good, and make a distinction between him and us.

Q: In other words, he discriminate us by evil, and unfortunately outcome suffer???


this is where i stopped, because i don't know how to continual on anymore...but at the end...i draw a temporary conclusion is that: I weather believe in a not perfect yet loving God, than a almighty but sadistic God.
i believe until someone or something prove to me its false. Indeed, i am truly ignorance.


P.S.: i think that christian is some what a dictatorship, think about it.
(not in exact words, but similar meaning)
when ever i ask question, than the bible brings up "you shall not challenge God!", than when i get past that barrier, than it just say, "men are not as wise as God"...

it just leave me very unsatisfied and fill with questions that is not suppose to ask and without a reasonable and logical answer. ~Frustrated~

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"Beware of the dog"
[  Edited by Sky1234 at   ]
 43yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that wizardslogic is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
If there is an entity called "god," it must necessarily have a dual nature combined as one. Ancient mystical philosophies have always recognized this fact. The Yin-Yang is one example of this understanding. If you really look at nature and the universe you see that the two principles of existence are inseparable. Side-by-side with what we call "good" there must be also be what we call "evil." One can only be defined and understood by the other. Nature itself is equally beautiful and terrifying, nurturing and destructive. Even life itself is a strange union of both life and death-in order for living things to continue existence they must kill and devour other living things: what a contradiction! Or is it necessary? Only orthodox religions attempt to separate the two principles into to two antithetical entities called God and Satan. The truth may be that these seemingly opposing principles may simply constitute two sides of 'god' that must be balanced in a perpetual state of equilibrium. Just a possibility.

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"Each conscious mind is alone in the universe!"
 32yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Sky1234 is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
so as you were saying, there might be 2-side of god? but i thought god is suppose to be all good...?
and good is against evil and vice versa, if god is both, than wouldn't he be contradicting himself? since he is the source of all good and evil, because he is the creator of all things.
anyways...there is a possibility of god being evil. If god is almighty, he can cover up his "evilness" and lied to us that he is all good. No body can testify against it, because that is a god's lie. and again, just a possibility.

it seems to leave just only 5 hypotheses:
Good God
Evil God
Good God and Evil God
Good-Evil God
No God

they all have problems...so which one is real?

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"Beware of the dog"
 31yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that MugenNoKarayami is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
If God encompasses all things, there is no possibility "good" is his only characteristic. Even though he is capable of both good and evil does not mean he's obligated to do one or the other.

Which brings up the point, technically God is evil, because if he is the source of everything, all the evil that goes on in the world/universe is because of God. Then again, if God is a completely separate entity of his creations, He may have created evil for the universe and is capable of not doing it himself.

I think the confusion lies in our inability to understand what will is. God would not have this problem, because he doesn't have to have "will power", rather his will simply is. So that would mean God could create evil, but not have to actively use it himself.

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"I'm a human being, God Dammit!! My life has value!!!"
 32yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Jacker_Jones is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
I will explain this as simply as possible.
premise 1) god exists
Premise 2) If god exists then he is omiscient(all knowing), omnipotent(all powerful) and omnibenevolent (all loving/good).
Premise 3) If god is omniscient, omnipotent, and omnibenevolent then if he created the world then it would not contain unnecessary evil.
Premise 4) God created the world
Premise 5) the world contains unnecessary evil
Premise 6) either god cannot abolish evil or he will not.
premise 7) If he cannot abolish evil then he is not omnipotent.
Premise 8) If he will not abolish evil then he is not omnibenevolent.
Premise 9) Thus either God is not omnipotent or he is not omnibenevolent.
conclusion) The definition of god (he is omiscient(all knowing), omnipotent(all powerful) and omnibenevolent (all loving/good).) cannot be true because it contadicts itself through the example of evil in the world.

Now I do not want to hear anybody say the devil is the cause of evil because the devil can not exist either. If god is omnipotent then he would simply conquer or destroy evil because he is omnibenevolent. If he really was all powerful surely he could conquer evil. If he chooses to not destroy evil then he is not omnibenevolent. The definition of God is simply a logical impossibility.

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"I love to see people struggling for their purpose in life..."
 36yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Tibby is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
God is an all-encompassing, infinate Being, the bible is clear on that. How can an entity that is everything and created everything not also be, and create evil?

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"Does anyone here know what Occam's Razor is!?"
 43yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that wizardslogic is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
I like that. And I'm sure that the whole idea of God stresses that we must strive to keep the aspects of "the good side" of God dominant in our consciousness so that our "vision" of the external world remains more beatiful than not, and our actions, therefore, nuture love and compassion which are, in essence, the foundations of creativity in all its forms, rather than destruction, which seems to me to be a function of unconscious and chaotic randomness. In a sense, it seems that "goodness" is the result of "conscious" will and "evil" a manifestation of some "unconscious" and uncontrolled weakness originating in some lower, bestial aspect of human nature. Who is to say that God does not possess this same instinctive, chaotic aspect that manifests itself as simply random chaos and destruction? Just a thought.

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"Each conscious mind is alone in the universe!"
 32yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Sky1234 is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
to tibby:
"i am guessing your question is: if god is all these thing that he describe, why he created evil?

well, one of the philosopher named Epicurus said this a few hundred years before Jesus was born.

"If god wants to prevent evil, but he can't.---God is not all-powerful.
If god is powerful enough to prevent evil, but he won't.--God is not all-loving.
If god neither can nor desire to prevent evil.--God is not divinity.
If god can and desire to prevent evil.--Why than is there evil in this world!?"

i don't know how to answer to your question...Tibby, since i think that no one on earth know the answer for certain. Even a great philosopher such as Epicurus, Hume, Aquinas...etc can't say they are certain that they know the answer, and i am just an ignorance fool.But i can give you my most probable answer, here it is:

If there is a god, that god might not be sin-less, or might be evil, my post before just explained why.

*quote*"If god is almighty, he can cover up his "evilness" and lied to us that he is all good. No body can testify against it, because that is a god's lie. and again, just a possibility."*quote*

anyways...just my 2cents so far, hopefully someone in the future can testify against it, because i don't want to have an evil god..."

^i am sorry wizardlogic...i didn't know that you posted a reply before me until i submit my post.

but i have a question though...are you (wizardlogic) saying that we might have a "lost in translation" with the word "evil" between us and god? Because i clearly recall that god identify himself as sin-less....perhaps that it is true...that our definition on "sin" is not as same as god's definition.

...anybody got any 2 cents on that???

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"Beware of the dog"
[  Edited by Sky1234 at   ]
 43yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that wizardslogic is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
"Lost in translation"--I like that, too. I don't have much time, but I'll say that I've read a number of theories that pretty much believe that evil is "unconsciousness"--a manifestation of conscious nonexistence originating in some instinctive aspects of human or, rather, organic existence. If you really think about it all forms of evil seem to have some selfish source. All animals survive on a simple form of selfishness driven by physical wants and needs--but these are innocent forms. Only human beings have created complex forms we recognize as evil. They are all unconscious in origin, though. Even goodness can be selfish, however.

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"Each conscious mind is alone in the universe!"
 32yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Sky1234 is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
lol...thanks for liking what i said, most friend of mine just think what i say is dull, boring, hard to understand....all adjective beside fully appreciating, its hard to find one that is...thanks.

well...i don't think goodness and selfishness is a good pair. Selfish usually cause suffering to others, and suffering, some labeled it as "evil"

Some, like you said, evil is an "unconsciousness" of mind.

but than...i still can't grasp how goodness and selfishness can be simultaneously paired...if you can, can you explain a little bit more on that? thanks

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"Beware of the dog"
 36yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Tibby is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Sky1234- My question was rhetorical. Let me restate my comment without the question:

God is an all-encompassing, infinite Being, the bible is clear on that. An entity that is everything and created everything has to be evil, and create evil, for evil to exist.

It wasn't a question, it was my 2 cents on the subject, put into the form of a question.

Thanks for trying, though. If I was a Christian, and I had actually asked that question, your answer would have been more then sufficient.

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"Does anyone here know what Occam's Razor is!?"
 32yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Sky1234 is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
haha...well...like i said, I am not smart, kinda dumb actually...please forgive my ignorance.

But i don't know, it seems that everything that god claim himself as is contradicting to the examples of the world, if he created evil, than wouldn't he be contradicting himself?

just like doing something that its not necessary and its loathsome...
like eating shyt and you don't even have to do it...

excuse my language, but do you get my point?

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"Beware of the dog"
 36yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Tibby is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
"But i don't know, it seems that everything that god claim himself as is contradicting to the examples of the world, if he created evil, than wouldn't he be contradicting himself?"

If you believe the Bible is the word of God, and that the bible is to be taken 100% literally with no Hyperbole or metaphor in it, then yes, it is contradictory...


"just like doing something that its not necessary and its loathsome...
like eating shyt and you don't even have to do it... "

There is an old saying "Whenever you give thanks to God for the Roses, be sure to thank him for the thorns as well." Meditate on that for a while, buddy.

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"Does anyone here know what Occam's Razor is!?"
 32yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Sky1234 is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
thanks for your 2 cent tibby

i might take the god's identification of himself a bit too literal, could you give me some example of his identification that is a hyperbole and/or metaphor ?

There is an old saying "Whenever you give thanks to God for the Roses, be sure to thank him for the thorns as well."

does this sentence said, by producing evil....it outcomes good?
but can god produce good without the essences of evil?
get back to the metaphor, can't god create a good rose without thorn??

maybe i didn't quite get the point...if i missed the point, please correct me, thanks.

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"Beware of the dog"
 38yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Jimbobby is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
tibby and Sky1234 - without lies how would you know truth? Without poverty how would you know richness? Beyond perfection the closest word we have to describe what lies there is 'purity'. I've nicked these snippets from a good mate.

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"Only gay people have quotes to look good"
If God exisit...why there is so much evil in the world?
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