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Aetheists Are Illogical - Page 4

User Thread
 32yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that ChrisD is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
"You perhaps fear that if there isn't a religious answer than death is the end and life is pointless."

And that was when you completely missed the point of my post.

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"The truth will set you on fire"
 42yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that Ironwood is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
quote:
And that was when you completely missed the point of my post.


I addressed the point I meant to address, the rest is built on speculation, based on many people's attitudes and opinions I have encountered, but speculation that needs clarification from you, unlike the lacking of clarity of your quote here.

Why don't you share, how or why you feel I have missed a point, I shouldn't even have to take the time to ask, but you fail to provide.

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"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"
 31yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that MugenNoKarayami is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
quote:
The Christian notion that if you don't know/take god/jesus as your savior you burn in hell.


a lot of people, especially Christians themselves have this almost humorous misconception that people automatically burn in hell if they don't believe in God. As far as I know, there are several levels of Hell and by no means will not believing God damn you to hell fire. But I'm also implying that said non believer has lived a good life and hasn't done anything severe.

It's called purgatory and limbo people. You can't be punished and eternally tortured if you lived a kind, peaceful life.


I just think many people are scared. That's pretty much it. I believe many people, the majority actually, are scared of life so why not have an all knowing, all powerful, do what ever it wants because it can being, that everyone can go to when shit hits the fan. Ask for forgiveness with sins that you may or may not have intended and you will be let into a kingdom of perfection with God; saving you from all the evil that is in the world. It makes perfect sense for scared irresponsible people to do.

I personally do think all people/things in this existence are one in the same. Our consciousness embodies the form we take now and are surrounded to experience everything we have no conscious thought over. this creates fear. fear creates a whole spectrum of emotions that have negative effects on our actions and will to be "good". We control everything we do pretty much, we have that "voice" inside our head that tells us what we should do in a certain situation. And with this Godly figure, we use it as a crutch to do good things, as if we're incapable.

Whether God exists or not, I think the question is, why should that depend on how good you act? If you knew there was no God, would you feel incapable of doing good on your own will? Would those primal fears overwhelm you and make you do bad things because you believe there is no point?

Religion causes nothing but problems. Why are there so many different gods or variations of a God? Because no one knows whether there is one or not. It's all speculation.

there's probably more to my input, I just don't have the energy to fish it out right now.

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"I'm a human being, God Dammit!! My life has value!!!"
 35yrs • M •
deathunter is new to Captain Cynic and has less than 15 posts. New members have certain restrictions and must fill in CAPTCHAs to use various parts of the site.
Chance is the answer, Pure Chance.

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"Join Me in the worship of the Almighty Pie!"
 25yrs • M •
Dausume is new to Captain Cynic and has less than 15 posts. New members have certain restrictions and must fill in CAPTCHAs to use various parts of the site.
This is just my simple opinion on this subject, though I am not as educated as many. Many people believe in god or gods and many believe in coincidence. However both ideas rely on the theory that it is all beyond our understanding, which it is.

It is evident that nothing is evident. Yet also the very existence of everything is evident of a truth. The known factor in this is that it is beyond our understanding. Science is nowhere near advanced enough to disprove religion. Because religion at its very essence is the interpretation of words.

Most major religions are interpreted many differing ways. Yet generally they are interpreted by the person to fit their own moralities. Or if the person finds the philosophy to completely mismatch they may abandon it completely.

I personally believe in a god, and I view the matter from a non-religious point. Scientifically there is no proof to or against a god. We are not forced to view this from a negative standpoint because to view it in any way is biased.

I believe in god and I am neutral. It is just as scientifically probable god exists in a way we can or cannot imagine as not. Looking at evidences there are limitless probabilities. We are not even yet fully certain how a quantum universe exists, not too long ago we had no notion of the air we breath or the sun as the center of the universe.

The possibility of an all knowing being existing beyond our scope of understanding is by no means far fetched. His reasoning on why god would leave us in ignorance is also by no means illogical. Assuming we were shaped in our intellect and reasoning after god as well as shape(as in many religions).

There are many possible imaginary scenarios, as well as there are many good reasonings behind them. Many explanations besides the big bang theory and god could be proposed by creative minds. Not to say either is merely creative.

What I'm proposing is no positive or negative stance can truly be taken with 100% flawlessness. Even my neutral stance can be deemed flawed if your religious or scientific beliefs contradict this. I know no matter what I say will in another's perspective at some point be deemed incorrect, either by a mistake of my wording or a lack of explanation.

If you know of Socrates and his philosophies that is what message I believe he hoped to portray. Essentially that message would be; It is necessary to know that no matter what wisdom you may gain, it is still ignorant.

With reference to Athiests I believe your strict denial of god is ignorant. To those who are extremists of religion, you say all that exists is created by god. To close your mind to any of it is ignorance against the god you believe in. So then To say any science is wrong usually contradicts yourself.

Science is the use and observation of what occurs naturally. A smart person should know the entirety of the bible can be entirely the truth as well as evolution. There are endless possibilities!!

In no religion did god or any version of god state the entirety of history. God could have just as easily created the earth in seven days, moved us and obliterated it. Then rearranged the universe as a puzzle for us to solve. This is not what I believe and I'm not saying to believe anything of the sort.

I am merely saying that too many people jump to conclusions. History is an eternal fill-in-the-blank and any smart person can with considerable amount of time make his own conclusion. It is entirely plausible god himself made the universe eternal and wishes us to pursue a wisdom we can never achieve.

God may possess that wisdom, but due to that wisdom he wishes us ignorant. My logic I do profess in this is the pursuit of happiness. Humanity is never more happy than when they learn something new, or gain a new experience. As an all knowing being aren't those the only two things you would find an impossibility?

What I mostly argue this for is science. There are clear gaps in explanation of history and creation of the universe in all religions and science. Yet from a still religious standpoint nature is composed of elements, chemicals and all other subjects studied in science.

This is irrefutable because these can be observed and "proven". Yet can still be disputed because it is undeniably proven elements can be broken down to more simple structures and functions beyond our current comprehension. Then even more complex as the structures are observed at more simple(small) structures and functions.

Any intelligent person must try and prove himself wrong in order to develop a more intellectual thought process. I know of many occasions I've contradicted myself and I love to learn from it. In a way more intelligent people may find what I say very contradictory in the future though I try and prevent it from being so.

Religions cannot and should not deny the existence of any science. Provided the science is truly scientific. Meaning it does not state anything indefinitely. Only what is most probable stated in the fewest words relevant to observation. Along with reserved speculation based on trends and relations between various observed circumstance.

My purpose in saying this is essentially my hope. I believe all people should seek to look into their own ignorance. No matter who you may be you will find some if you do so wisely. Neither Athiests nor religious folk need be extreem or deny each other their beliefs. Whether those beliefs be scientific or religious.

Rather to not be accepting of other beliefs is morally wrong. The only matter I find truly illogical is those who deny science. Observing the vast array of studies and ways to study, it seems mind boggling.

The universe is so incredibly complex yet we have so many tools to use to discover its secrets. Despite our bodies being as they are we study subjects uncountable times smaller and larger than ourselves. The universe seems coincidentally made so we can study it forever.

All tools we now use are essentially made naturally. Fire is natural, as well as all fuels before processed. Our "man-made" metals are usually made from taking two or three natural materials and melting or mixing them together. In a way we have not and cannot use anything but nature.

Everything from this perspective is natural. The set up for nature in reference to the way we make our tools for observation is very simple for us. Yet in nature for these materials to exist is much less likely than ourselves due to basic particle trending over all known existence.

Though I apologize if that is an incorrect statement, as I said I'm ill educated on the subject. This is merely something to think on. The structure of this universe designed as it is has allowed us to steadily gain a more diverse understanding of it and seems to do so eternally.

If god exists, and believes us so important to keep us ignorant. For what purpose might god choose to do so and set the entirety of the universe as a mystery? For what purpose might god give us a desire for wisdom? In this case god designed the entire universe so we might always be able to seek it.

There are many possible ways for god to possibly judge someone's loyalty. To design the universe in such a way is unnecessary for any such purpose. I can see no other reasoning behind gods design of our universe but to allow the pursuit of wisdom and thereby happiness.

Albeit if god does not exist and I am wrong I do not mind either. If the universe lacks god then peace is still possible provided we all follow our pursuits. I only wish that people whether religious, atheist or otherwise will recognize themselves illogical. So they may pursue wisdom together and thereby pursue peace.

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 32yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that Theory is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Atheists are illogical.

I classified myself as atheist yet i believe in god (reality)

To openly state god does not exist seems preposterous to me.

God is not separate from reality god is reality and we are the conscious thought of god.

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"We breathe natures breath until we are tired and layed to rest..."
 63yrs • M •
Nebbish is new to Captain Cynic and has less than 15 posts. New members have certain restrictions and must fill in CAPTCHAs to use various parts of the site.
What we know is that we exist. Beyond that we either chase our tails or accept existence for what it appears to be. As subjective beings, we can only speculate on objective reality. Whatever it IS, it is in spite of us.

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 64yrs • F •
jomc20 is new to Captain Cynic and has less than 15 posts. New members have certain restrictions and must fill in CAPTCHAs to use various parts of the site.
Atheists do not believe in the existence of god(s) so it makes no sense to say you are an atheist yet believe in god. I doubt whether many would accept your description of god as 'reality'. You seem confused! It is utterly illogical to believe in god(s) since there is no proof, that they exist - they were invented by men. For proof from neuroscience and psychology, read: 'Why we believe in god(s)' by J Anderson Thomson, Jr., MD.

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 30yrs • M •
agro is new to Captain Cynic and has less than 15 posts. New members have certain restrictions and must fill in CAPTCHAs to use various parts of the site.
If you conclude you will die someday, I bet the idea of an afterlife is very appealing. If you wonder how everything around you exists, the concept of a perfect creator should be sufficient. If you have think of how people around you could so easily destroy everything you own or kill you if they had the inclination to, divine morality sure is a blessing. So far anything I could really spend my life thinking about or protecting is pretty much taken care of. After all if I subscribed to the religion geographically common to the region I live in everything is going swimmingly for some divine plot I will never comprehend. Things are so convenient with my god I only seem to have to worry about feeding myself, saying hello to neighbors, and what makes me more like Jesus.
Okay so I've been labelled "illogical" and perhaps should have been labelled "immoral" too, because Christianity claims nonbelievers are beyond the common sense and other attributes that are synonymous with morality. Back to the forum though, I will approach this from a less discussed point of view. I find it still relevant though.
Religions tend to conjure up divine beings who don't have much of an appetite for the infinite space that is the universe. These divine beings seem to have more interest invested into our comfy planet we have here. And the divine beings not only seem to care about here but also right now is pretty important too. Every few spins... I think seven or so seems to do it and we should take a breather had remember that we can't stand on our own feet and thank Captain Mysterious and Mr. Mysterious Jr for being around and handing us a manual on living. Mr. Mysterious Jr tends to have appeared as some sort of son or prophet or whatever who has a private line to the almighty and through sight or sound is communicating with the big guy. And junior is our star in this manual on living but forget about that. He was communicated to with sight and hearing? Well, I can see and hear, these are well within my repertoire of senses. Pretty human to me, I mean I guess if I was high I would lie to myself and mistake having more sense but meh. We tend to have five very limited but versatile senses unless we are in some way handicapped. We only see so much in the spectrum of light, we only pick up so much in the frequency ranges, we can't smell much honestly compared to other creatures, and the last two are probably not very sharp either. So divine communication is thankfully dumbed down for us. Besides we have our minds and that's pretty nice in comparison to those filthy animals. Heh, they sure don't get a god, hell no, or at least my occidental mind doesn't think so. Haha, they wouldn't even be able to kid themselves into there being one. They're dumb, that's why they all turn on their same race and kill each other because they all have no god. There are no packs, prides, pods or anything like that its the nature of immoral things to commit genocide on its own race. That's what many suppose we godless people default to as well, I guess. Logical thinking and atheists don't go hand in hand. Atheism ruins countries and impedes science, historically speaking. If I'm wrong I'm sure there is only a handful of the inverse.
Well I've grown tired with my irrational and immoral sarcasm monologue so I'll make this quick at the end. Religion and concepts of god are convenient for life and its many mysteries. They summarize infinitely complex subjects with a single name and a promise. They satisfy peoples need for companionship when there isn't any to be had. Faithful people enjoy a decadent buffet of ignorance from archaic and bound to be twisted teachings of times passed. Why? Because it serves them. It is truly a path of least resistance mentally and emotionally. Belief in god serves us too well to be true.

Leave it to Ironwood and that other dudes argument to see the more metaphysical side of this. Despite Ironwood's call sign where he nit picks and tells people they are idiots that was pretty intellectual.

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 26yrs • M •
Orion is new to Captain Cynic and has less than 15 posts. New members have certain restrictions and must fill in CAPTCHAs to use various parts of the site.
I apologize for 2 things. first if i am reppeating someone cause i haven't read every post. second that i will include religions even though you said not to but i have to for easier explanation.
So.. In every religion there is a figure of a God called differently. Every religion has a lot of contradictions. So you have the God in christianity (i can only talk about it cause I don't know any other enough) that created the world from nothing and made humans the same as him. Of course if you believe it it is ok. I say i have a God that used bilions of years to create live in the way that only the strongest survived. And the one that did't evolve to something better got extinct. I call that God nature.
The only different thing from your god is that my god is not a living being but just a phenomenon.
So i ask you is it possible that your living god is just a figure that was created in order to explain something at time illogical?
If you would ask me the same thing about my "God" i would answer it... yes it is possible but i choose this kind of thinking because it has more proof of being true.
The God figure is just your point of view in my opinion.

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 66yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that thx1137 is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
I hesitated to post on this topic for several reasons. Mostly because it is pointless. Most minds are already made up. This is so evident that the title is a statement, not a question, and it presupposes the answer.

But, I can't help myself.

Historically, man utilized belief systems to explain that which he did not understand. To be able to cope with the world in which he found himself, he invested both explanation and purpose in these beliefs. This is why they are so slow to change -- it is upsetting to the very sense of self.

So religion fought against any explanation to the contrary. When it was purposed that the earth was not the center of the universe, there was violent resistance. There is still resistance in accepting that DNA, not determination describes the machinery of life.

Now that the Higgs particle has been isolated, the explanation for the beginning of the universe has fallen totally into the realm of science. As Stephen Hawking stated, this makes God superfluous, the universe would necessarily have begun with or without Him.

The problem with this, is that this completely removes man from being the center. Note, not without meaning or importance, but also not the sole reason for its existence.

This will be hotly debated of course. Mostly by those who lack the mathematical background to understand it.

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 38yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that StraightFace is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
If there is a Creation, there must have been a Creator. you would not walk through a junkyard, pick up a fully functioning mechanical wristwatch, and then suppose that the pieces randomly arranged themselves into a precision instrument.....
Most Atheists I know personally and professionally are dejected Catholics who were disgusted with the hypocrisy and hollowness of their 'faith'

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 66yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that thx1137 is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
The wristwatch analogy is a very poor one, that really does not capture the essence of the scientific studies that have been made. But to use that analogy: how proficient would you consider a watchmaker, when upon walking into his shop found over 900 billion watches of which only one worked?

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 34yrs • F •
A CTL of 1 means that SomeKindaCyan is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
I wanted to reply because I am an Atheist, a 'No God' atheist. I do not find myself void of morality or humanity. I'm actually too caring and too trusting of people that it's gotten me hurt in the past multiple times.

The reason I'm an Atheist is this: I am in control of my actions. I know the difference between right and wrong and I don't need someone else telling me to judge or turn others. I'm also not comfortable basing my life on a book that was written by men, when in the same bible men are full of mistakes and error. I live in the present with what is in front of me, and I'm content doing so.

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""Dying's easy; living's hard." -Wilson"
 30yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that pickup is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
I LIVE THIS EFFING THREAD

I don't even think it's right to believe in the concept of God as one being maybe its just a force and we are all apart of it Agnostic to me is believing with certainty that there is no certainty and to question everything.

That means that to me all organized religions are wrong and that all atheists are just as callous. Nietzsche went insane and it wasn't fucking syphilis or cancer he literally thought himself into insanity, he deconstructed himself because he believed his own bullshit. The theory is the god gene predisposition.

Whats even more perverted than that are athiests that think Satanism is cool, that way if you have a problem just kill it, literally your a societal cancer.

There's no such thing as an atheist in a foxhole, well there are things in life we can't explain traumatic mental damages that we can't overcome see epigenetics so at some point people going through shit and people who have been through shit just need to be able to say fuck it I know what science says but I am still afraid to go into crowds or think a gun went off when a car back fires that's too ingrained in my brain and just need to let go and just let it be, accept it as part of reality, I see athiests as liars and manipulators just like I see devote religious people liars and hypocrites so I really do trust no one. Remember kids not believing in anything is fucking believing in something

Anyone who claims that they are absolutely certain about anything more complicated than this is a chocolate chip cookie, that is a movie this is a book this is a math equation etc. should be looked at suspiciously.



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"I like carl sagans spin on that, we are all made of the same stuff therefore we are all one and should love one another as an extension of ourselfs"
Aetheists Are Illogical - Page 4
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