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Excerpt: Mainline U.S. Church Publishes Book That Claims U.S. Government Was Behind 9/11

User Thread
 61yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that okcitykid is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Excerpt: Mainline U.S. Church Publishes Book That Claims U.S. Government Was Behind 9/11
quote:
Submitted by rob on Sun, 2006-08-13 16:49.
The Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.)'s publishing arm has released a book that says President Bush organized New York's Sept. 11 attacks.

The decision by the 160-year-old Westminster John Knox Press, the trade and academic publishing imprint of the Presbyterian Publishing Corp., to attribute the attacks on the World Trade Center brings into the U.S. religious mainstream a conspiracy theory long held by the world's jihadists.

In 'Christian Faith and the Truth behind 9/11: A Call to Reflection and Action,' author David Ray Griffin calls the United States the world's 'chief embodiment of demonic power, says he initially scoffed at 9/11 conspiracy theories.

But after investigating he concluded that the Twin Towers were brought down by controlled demolition, military personnel were given stand-down orders not to intercept hijacked flights and the 9/11 Commission, ostensibly created to uncover the truth behind the events of 9/11, 'simply ignored evidence' that the administration was involved in the attacks.

Griffin further asserts that such events such as that of 9/11 are part of a long history of 'false-flag attacks,' attacks orchestrated by governments against their own people to garner popular support for military action.

Griffin is a professor at California's Claremont School of Theology and Claremont Graduate University, and a codirector of the Center for Process Studies.




http://robwire.com/?q=node/1153

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"A fool says I know and a wise man says I wonder."
 37yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that heyjme1 is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
He's got some balls.

America could have staged this. And people need to see the information as a wake-up call. Still, I'm still cynical because it could be that the US government did make a huge cock-up and that the risk of being found out would have tremendous consequences. However, the evidence is convincing.

Our democracies have been constantly kept in check by a few at the top by methods of physical or mental control. Whilst getting informtaion out there seems a good idea; for me whether or not America did this is not the most important thing. Be careful how to interpret this; I'm not saying its not important. But that's not the point; challenge the cause not the effect. Now to the really pressing question; how do we get a government who serve the people and not some other people?

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""No words""
 42yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that Ironwood is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
quote:
Now to the really pressing question; how do we get a government who serve the people and not some other people?


Destroy igornace and apathy, stop criminalizing the innocent and go after some real criminals.

We have to educate and not take "I don't care" or "I can't be sure so why bother" or "We don't have the right to know" for answers.

The more we simply shut up and ignore the real problems the more we become part of them.

And like other arguments I've recently seen here, if we can just get people to stop thinking they know the truth when they even know they are being lied to and kept in the dark.

To realize ignorance, and instead of ignoring it, doing something about it.

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"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"
 37yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that heyjme1 is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Ironwood, the problems have been highlighted. One problem, however, is still in the nature of the problem finder.

If you step away from recent discussion you find that what is really happening is still intellectual snobishness. Whilst watching some Dawkins videos I started to think a little more about how things work. Though he may be right that science is the only way and religion is inferiror, etc., the problem seems to me that the perceived nature of how this information is conveyed receives violent opposition sometimes. Could it be that this is because the real reason Dawkins does this is not because of his pro-evolution but his anti-religiousness? This may or may not be the case, but the reaction would be to infer this. Do not underestimate the media. The way to win is to have a method graeter than the person playing against you. Think about this; especially the case in WWII.

You say that the wise question themselves all the time. But this is still stuck upon the problem. A fool believes he is right; period. Now, it seems the foolish are gaining the upper hand. Now, what solution logically leads from this?

The focus is still too much on the problem. For example, who really cares who shot JFK, who cares how Diana died. Too much energy is put into this because, at its roots, people are so intrigued by mystery and what could be rather than face what is day-to-day. The first reaction of this may be to say that conspiracy theories are all put into the same bag when they are not. But if we look deeper, what causes this to be so.

See today we live in a world set from the theories of ultimately Freud. Politicians use the knowledge of the mind to control its behaviour. What we are dealing with is slow and progressive control. This is the problem; it is in the mindest. To liberate a mind requires a shift from the thinking of what it should be like or why it should be like this to HOW.

Solution 1:

In this mindset people who stand up and shout and are angry are seen as mad. So screaming and shouting and stamping feet does not work. What's needed is one of two things. One to make it look like what you arte doing is right, certain, without question. This is hippocritical to the desired end outcomes but the method has worked. You say that the wise question themselves all the time. But this is still stuck upon the problem. A fool believes he is right; period. Now, it seems the foolish are gaining the upper hand. Now, what solution logically leads from this?

At this point ask yourself the same problems we face today; do you not think they were thought of by the same opinions of some men who sat around and then went; we could invent a religion. Or perhaps one day a man thought; I need to set myself up as the all knwoing so that I can help liberate people from political evil.

It could be, I may be wrong, but that a new developing religion is that of science. However, though it may talk of critical reasoning, what it is really preaching, be its intent or not, is cynicism.

Off the point, but important: in the same way scientists hate fundamentalists, in the same way Muslims hate Christians, in the same way Americans hate terrorists/freedom fighters ; the problem is not advocation of Christianity or advocation of Americanism or advocation of Islam or advocation of freedom fighting; but the hatred of the perceived opposite. Its a delsuional state of relativity.

Solution 2:

The second is a new way for us to think about and make it happen. This is the void.

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""No words""
 37yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that heyjme1 is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.

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""No words""
 61yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that okcitykid is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
DIVIDE and conquer.

There are a lot scientists who are religious who do believe in a higher power.

But if you watch a conservative owned media you will believe that all science is anti religion, anti god.

If we are all pitted against each other - Bushco wins.

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"A fool says I know and a wise man says I wonder."
 42yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that Ironwood is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
quote:
Ironwood, the problems have been highlighted. One problem, however, is still in the nature of the problem finder.


The nature of a problem finder is irrelevant if a problem is legitimate.

quote:
If you step away from recent discussion you find that what is really happening is still intellectual snobishness.


Intellectual snobishness is not a problem, its just annoying, ignorance and the fear to face it masquerading as intellect or knowledge of truth is a problem, snobish or not.

quote:
Do not underestimate the media. The way to win is to have a method graeter than the person playing against you.


Who's underestimating the media? The persons playing against this information are the ones already using the media. A greater method than the use of the media is hard to come by, and "they" got there first.

Solution is to use alternatives and deal with the fact that we have to think critically and actively work to solve the problem, should we want the problem solved of course.

quote:
You say that the wise question themselves all the time.


No, I say they don't need to question themselves, as long as they know they do not know, they question everything else, and should they come to "believe" something, THEN the wisER would be the one to question themselves on why they believe that.

You'll see solution 1's method needed retraction with solution (or more accurately question or admission of ignorance, which is ironically the answer) 2's void properly filled.

The new way of thinking is indeed the answer, which is why your first solution is still part of the problem, or stuck upon it if you will. Becuase it actually advocates the problematic way of thinking. Just thinking and convincing yourself and others that you are right.

As opposed to admitting that you don't and can't know under current circumstance and then changing these controlling circumstances accordingly.

Such as the cessation of claiming knowledge of the reality of classified information and operations.

Such as a stop to repeating opinions, and unfortunately claimed "facts", as facts.

We have to stop kidding ourselves about what we think we know, not egg ourselves on to continue claiming false knowledge to soothe our egos and manipulate the ignorant.

Trying to manipulate in the fashion of solution (also known as the problem to begin with) one discredits any truth it attempts to assert.

Once those who are adament about their "belief" in the righteousness of their convictions are shown that they have been manipulated and why, they will likely take appropriate path and measures.

The trick is to get people to recall that it is WE who are supposed to remain vigilant of those in power, not some secret agency accountable to the very same powers that be.

That power corrupts and causes poverty and death when unchecked, not that poverty and resistance to tyranny are terrorism and a threat to power.


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"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"
 42yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that Ironwood is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
DIVIDE and conquer.

quote:
There are a lot scientists who are religious who do believe in a higher power.

But if you watch a conservative owned media you will believe that all science is anti religion, anti god.

If we are all pitted against each other - Bushco wins.


Yes, the part I forgot to mention. You can't confuse seeking justice for criminality with political or ideological partisanship and bickering.

There is a reason to seek who killed JFK and Diana and purpetrated 9/11, not because democrats are supposed to hate republicans, or christians are supposed to hate scientists or muslims, but because who did it is who needs to be punished and taken out of any posistions of power or influence if they hold them.

Because the answer to these questions or "mysteries" hold the reality we would base our decisions on and what we "believe" we are right about. If people knew for a fact that elements of our own governments were indeed causing terrorism on us and others for their own gain we might just act a little differently "believe" a little differently.

You said don't underestimate the media, I say you are right, in more ways than one, but due to your statement I must remark that you must not underestimate the power of truth and knowledge in the hands of the average citizen.

Oh, and to add and confuse, I understand you probably are not trying to say that you want people manipulated, just for people to show some confidence in the fashion that does lead people to follow, and thats fine as long as it is actually based on something as truthful as knowingly possible.

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"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"
 61yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that okcitykid is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
We see things differantly because we are different, and if we all saw things the same way, somethings would get missed.

I think the media has convinced us that religion belongs to the conservative right wing republicans. I might have believed it a little bit myself, but recently this gal has landed my blog who has shown me a radio station and several web sites and a great deal of research she has done revealing the decietfulness of Bush. This must be the Dixie Dems I've heard about that I've been told have gone extinct.

There's another guy called Peter who sends me stuff who absolutly does not believe in God - we've had this discussion and have agreed to dissagree yet be on the same side.

We're not always going to agree on everything and shouldn't have to - but these people believe in only one thing and that is winning (I wish I could find that email message I published in my blog from one of these nut jobs, it's buried deep, I look for it all the time as an example).

They will say Mother Marry is returning if it will win an election, they've sold their soul and they'll put their mother up for auction and sell their first born. These people are bad, evil, terrible, the worst, and Cheney leads the pack. I still don't believe there is a hell and that people go there, but these people make me want to believe such things.

In Oklahoma today a friend told me they saw a bumper sticker that read, "I hate SUVs and the road to hell is paved by Republicans" That's bad, but that takes guts to put that on your bumper in Oklahoma City. The anger grows.

We just showed "Sir no Sir" in a Minnonite Church last night - and it was bad back in those days. People were turning cars over in the street, being sent to prison, being shot dead by Guardsman, and finally in 1975 we won. It is a shame that so quickly it has gone forgotten, but a new generation is born and the media wiped it off the map.

When Sir no Sir hits the theators - watch it - I think you'll be impressed. The president of VFP is interviewed several times.

Anyways its okay you don't see things my way - I'm not offended, hurt or discouraged, as long as you understand we are on the same side.

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"A fool says I know and a wise man says I wonder."
Excerpt: Mainline U.S. Church Publishes Book That Claims U.S. Government Was Behind 9/11
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