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"We're not tools of the government or anyone else, fighting was the only thing I was good at, but atleast i always fought for what i beleived in. (Gray Fox)" - Moonlightshadow

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Doing good: Universal Religion

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3953 Posts / 48M

30yrs

Ironwood

quote:
surely population control is a sorry excuse of an arguement for whay to have war and mass murder.

Wow, that's and in depth explanation. But I'm afraid I'm left to wonder how you figure. Why else kill lots of people than because there are too many people around to begin with. But again, such a simplistic version of the affects of overpopulation is rediculous, it causes serious confrontation and health issues, no two ways about it.

quote:
i'm well aware that trusting ones own government, and especially americas is stupid

Indeed, have to say though, the UK is always our number one competitor. Its your government that faked IRA bombings for terrorism for government gain as part of the CIA/MI5 operation gladio.

Not to mention the questionable events of 7/7. Isn't it nice to know that drills for the exact events of 9/11 and 7/7 were taking place on both 9/11 and 7/7 respectively? I feel safer already.

quote:
(i nearly wet myself laughing when i heard laura bush descirbing dubya as anti war).

I missed that one, but I assure you, had I been drinking milk I would have had new colored walls. But once my gut had thuroughly busted, I would surely have had the extreme urge to cry over the amount of idiots that must exist who believed her.

quote:
despite the size of the iraq conflict, if it has dwarfed the holocaust i would be suprised, considering the fact several million people died during it.

Ya, dwarfed is only an accurate term for 9/11, the holocaust is simply equalled to surpassed. Not joking about the 5 million kids alone, before the current Iraq war started.

quote:
i just assumed you meant saddam husseins government aduction and torture or its own citizens

Na, though the possibility exists that it could have been as bad as the hype, the simple history of propagandic distortion makes me leary. Regardless, offhand, mainly only the UN and that company DynCorp have been openly caught red handed, but there is a systematic human traffic trade, and ya, not even counting our dissappearings and open torturing of "enemy combatants" from the current conflict. What a sad lack of caring goes into that topic indeed.

quote:
i think the one difference between humans and viruses is that we have "intelligence".

Sometimes I wonder. But it may turn out that our intelligence just makes us more effcient viruses, because there is no visible change in our actions in sight.

quote:
we could colletively manage to put a stop to a lot of the problems we cause.

Well then we must be twice as unintelligent, if we actually have the means but don't. Just a thought.

quote:
viruses are just genetically programmed.

Though not our sole influence, it has to be a main one.

quote:
i also think the "benefits" of 9/11 are questionable

Insider trading on airline stocks, missing gold from the twin towers, the building's owner making a few billion, and this is all the chump change. The real money comes from the renewed arms race and projected endless war. No bid contracts, arms dealers back in business in a newly refreshed arms race. The military industrial complex. We were warned of it for good reason.

quote:
and a load of americans got stirred up into a near religious fervour which bush used to push a war.

The biggest group of blood thirsty "pious" sheep I've seen in a while.

quote:
the fulfilment of the american dream, greed and patriotism.

Good ol' capitalism, sell your own mother to get some apple pie.

"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"
[ Edited by Ironwood at ]

1271 Posts / 39M

20yrs

Cynic-Al

the difference between us and viruses, is that virus has no choice, none of it. humans problem is often called "the lowest common denominator" we're only as good as our worst member. not all humans want to destroy the planet, some try and find alternatives to the things that damage the planet. viruses just unanimously destroy. but we do have a lot in common if you look at our consequences alone.

"I tried coding in cocoa but it ran between the keys and shorted my pc"

2201 Posts / 64M

49yrs

okcitykid

One the big problems is leadership, in the church and in politics.

I have never came accross one church that is self sufficient with solar panels and a windmill and a local garden. Likewise, when the government says its ok to drive an SUV, what does that tell you.

If any one of these two sources of leadership stood up and said, look, we need to start doing this or that, and we need to start now. Some people would hm and ha - but you'll start seeing action.

When I was in the Navy and I was thinking about getting out. One of the reasons I used was this chief that everyone picked on, I didn't want to be in that position. My chief told me, do you see any of the other chiefs get picked on, I said, "no". Do you know why, I said, "no" Because he doesn't tell them not to pick on him, people do what they're told to do, he refuses to give orders. If he demanded respect he would get it.

Not all people will do as they are told, but most will. They have decided to blame it all on comercialization - and it's a good excuse, but its just an excuse.

"A fool says I know and a wise man says I wonder."

1271 Posts / 39M

20yrs

Cynic-Al

unfortunately a lot of the people who get to the top, are the ones who are willing to make big sacrifices to get there, either environmentally or in human terms.

commercialism is a brilliant excuse, because it is people subconsciously being told what to do. "buy this", " buy this it will make you look good" "drink this it will lower your collestrol". we just buy the things we want, without thinking how they get into the shops.

"I tried coding in cocoa but it ran between the keys and shorted my pc"

369 Posts / 64M

41yrs

Patrish

The OP addresses Heaven's standards, and that the good should go regardless of their faith and in what we are shown that is in fact needed for such a venture.

Put it this way...if we were going to base getting into heaven by our standards, then no one would go to hell.

Simply put...I am sure even Hitler felt he was doing good by eliminating a group of persons he 'felt' were subjective to extermination because they werent good, but Germans with blue eyes and blonde hair were.

So it is not ours to folly with eternity...but it is by our own doing that we get what we asked for in the end.

Now I am not going to judge anyone...but I leave one thot with the OP.

IT says in the NT that those who knew Jesus and turned away, crucify Him once more...and it is harder for them to repent.
So, turning away from Christianity to chase after something intriguing has it short comings.

But dont take my word for it....look at the martyred men who died for righteousness of the Church. For Christ they picked up their crosses and died to give witness that Jesus was true and real.

Before studying the strange cults of the east, it is better to commit oneself to study of history and the Bible.

Archeology too is a gr8 tool of proof.

Peace!

When studying history ignore the men's actions, and seek the relevance of the Gospel, and how the Gospel lived on in the words of the early Church fathers...the first Christians.

If that is unappealing, then I shrug my shoulders.

"Life is full of lemons, and the lemonade is sweet."

2201 Posts / 64M

49yrs

okcitykid

quote:
commercialism is a brilliant excuse, because it is people subconsciously being told what to do. "buy this", " buy this it will make you look good" "drink this it will lower your collestrol". we just buy the things we want, without thinking how they get into the shops.

You're right - I was referring to leadership, I didn't explain myself very well.

Indeed, money is the root of all evil

I believe it was Jesus who taught that you reap what you sow.

"A fool says I know and a wise man says I wonder."

856 Posts / 39M

20yrs

Jacker_Jones

quote:
money is the root of all evil

Well with that said wouldn't that make America the richest nation in the world the evilest? I think that the methods of obtaining wealth are mostly evil. The only circumstance I can see where the obtaining of vast sums of money is not evil is through inheritance or simply working hard.

"I love to see people struggling for their purpose in life..."

2201 Posts / 64M

49yrs

okcitykid

I love my country and it hurts to agree that yes we are the most evil.

But it is not the fault of our fore fathers who designed it but the fault of those after them who redesigned it to make Corporations an entity, thereby granting an industrial complex constitutional rights. This is where we failed.

400 billion yearly on defense, a hundred times larger than anything like it in the world. Filling the pockets of any corporation lucky enough to have a defense contract while it overtaxes its citizens and sends their children to die in foreign lands. This should create outrage, but with a bought media machine, owned by about three people, they convince the American people of their patriotic duty. You won't see my flag flying - hopefully in my lifetime - we can turn this all around.

"A fool says I know and a wise man says I wonder."

3953 Posts / 48M

30yrs

Ironwood

quote:
id love to hear how any of the things you mentioned at the end of your posts are good things?

Such as 9/11, Iraq war, and the Holocaust, besides the ridding of large groups of people that, due to choices they continue to make, are continuous parts of the problems we face...

(not a means I recommend or prefer mind you)

In a less condescending and bitter answer I can only say that the possible good to come from such things is the catalyst they serve as to awaken those who truly do wish and strive for possitive change.

quote:
the difference between us and viruses, is that virus has no choice, none of it.

You don't know that.

quote:
viruses just unanimously destroy.

But notice how they do not destroy everything, only selective things, things harming the environment primarily.

quote:
not all humans want to destroy the planet, some try and find alternatives to the things that damage the planet

Perfectly noble, however when doing so within the confines of a contruct which is the greater source of the problem, it really becomes inconsequential and indeed a part of the problem itself.

Again, if these noble folks are not getting at the source, then they are but adding to the problem.

Overpopulation is indeed an issue, but I would suggest that it is the ignorance, apathy, and manipulation of these populations by selective groups and agendas and the populations continual allowance of it that is the source of the issue.

Even over the population issue itself due the probability that a more free and unmanipulated enlightened humanity would truly fix such issues of population becoming out of balance with environment, instead of just feebly attempting to address symptoms and continuing and even helping perpetuate the self destruction.

Patrish, your turning away from any information or reality that doesn't fit your strange cult of Christian "beliefs" has its short comings.

But don't take my word for it...... look at the men who have died for righteousness in spite of the church. They used their own minds in search of truth and died for allowing even the possibility that Jesus might not be real. Killed by your "righteous" church.

"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"

Doing good: Universal Religion


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