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"Well son, I certainly don't think I am superior or all knowing"
Good to hear, cause your not, but no one had accused you like you had, and that was the point.
"but I do believe I know a damn sight more about what's really happening over here than you do."
No one said you didn't, in regards to what you can physically see for yourself. There are mixed views, reporting, "facts" and even intell coming from all sides, some true some not, this is what I know, and be it you or I, neither of us are privy to details such a collatoral damage civilian causualties or what drives that agenda that has us where we are.
"How many months have you served over here, anyway? I notice you have made no refernce to serving at all,"
If I were making claims this might be relevant. I have served you condacending dolt, Navy Intelligence.
"so I am supposed to simply take what you say at face value when I am here and seeing a far different situation than the one you're perporting?"
Your seeing all civilian casualties lying in front of you in contradictory numbers? You are issued all covert and overt classified operational details, tactics and results?
What exactly have I "claimed" that has so disturbed your obviously normally composed demeanor?
"what I am taking exception to is the allegation that far more have died because of our involvement here which is utter bullshit."
If our involvement was only in reference to this war now, then I would better see your point, but how does your notion hold against the death's in regard from all of our involvement from even claims of CIA assistance in Bath Coup. Strategic assisting during Iraq Iran, Gulf 1, Sanctions, Bombings during sanctions, and war now?
We've done an awful lot of killing over there, no argument there at least I would hope, but your standpoint on what numbers stack up to substantiate what claim is made baseless by your own point of you having no idea of death totals like none of us can past reporting. So get off your high horse.
And if you want to bitch about media, please do, I'm sick of not having media worth a shit, but if you want to bash stat claims, at least take the time to know what you are talking about as well.
http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/10/29/iraq.deaths/
So, though you hold no pertinent data, you feel that because you are in Iraq in the military that you have an unbiased and fair assesment of what is going on there? If you think propaganda is bad in the civilian world, sheesh.
"what he reads or hears and then twists to suit his personal agenda"
If you looked at the article then it is obvious I needn't twist anything, and other than to know the facts I have no agenda you arrogantly slanderous assumptive ass.
"Once more you seem to have a knack for attacking those who do know more about something than you do"
Calling you preachy isn't an attack, its an observation, you are none to subtly claiming superiority on topic and trying to convince others of it, you're preaching.
"I am still in a far better one than you to try and ajudge this situation for what it is and not what you seem hell bent on making it."
You have no knowledge from a policy setting and operational control standpoint. And i'm not trying it anything.
"Who "sent" you?
Did someone have to send me?"
"I'm new here, and most likely wouldn't be here if I had not of been asked"
"I never claimed it was accurate, and in fact thought I stated it was anything but"
You misunderstood me then, didn't say you did, my point was that you were claiming it blown out of proportion with absolutely no knowledge of the information needed to do so, you didn't even know where it came from. Because you were.... "running his mouth about something he doesnt really know much about beyond what he reads or hears and then twists to suit his personal agenda. But of course you do have the right to feel as you do, I wont argie with you about your rights. But having rights isnt the same as being right, sportsfan".
"Its irrelevant to me how the number was reached and what bleeding heart liberal wants to settle some score by dreaming it up."
Yes, you've proven knowing what you are talking about isn't your first concern when making claims. Just what you were trying to bitch at me for.
Arrogant hypocrit.
"My limitations are not those of the average American, thats for damn sure, because I dont sit each day in front of a television getting spoon fed what some reporter with hopes of pulitzer prize feels is accurate versus what isnt. I am here, in the sand, up close and personal....." being spoon fed what some higher up and allowed and censored media venue feels is accurate versus what isnt.
This, I can dispell the innacurracies in the world because I'm where people are talking about way of thinking is absurd. You come on here bitching about people repeating media, our only source of info, like its our fault, then denouncing all media claims, unless they suit your posistion I'm sure, then provide no even attempted "factual" data to the contrary, and people are supposed to take what you say as having more credibility? Why?
"Your attitude reminds me of how the taste of freedom is a flavor the protected will never know. A little advice, junior - until you have walked the battlefields I have and done the things I have had to so you can sleep in relative comfort at night"
Well unfortunately you have a preconditioned response to your interpretation of my attitude. You hear key phrases and words and react accordingly. Not to say that you don't have valuable information and perspective.
As for the battlefields I've walked -grandpa, I've been shot at in American streets, molested by Americans, beaten by Americans, forced to endlessly watch the beating of American loved ones by other supposed American Loved ones, mostly as a child etc ad nauseum. Being in a war does not make you the authority on its legitimacy or accountings, just the legitimacy of your actions given your knowledge, controlled as it is just like everyone elses.
Thats just it. With those key phrases you are distracted from the theme of my posts, that my friend neither you nor I are in a posistion to evaluate all the circumstances and forces at play in this war, you see me spouting one sided propaganda, wouldn't surprise me, thats why I point it out too, because I'm concerned that my source of info, mainstream and indy press can so openly contradict both themselves and eachother leaving us a helpless uninformed mass.
"You insult the spirit of our forefathers and fail to understand that what Thomas Jefferson said almost 200 years is still quite true today - the tree of Liberty must often be watered with the blood of patriots."
I insult the spirit of a need for war, so your saying I'm supposed to want to encourage war? I am supposed to be ok with the notion of inevitable war instead of actively trying to prevent and end it?
People decry slaughter, then are confused when people cry out when more people slaughter to slaughter the slaughterers. Then get confused and angry when people say this all confuses and angers them.
War like man's imperfection does exist, our goal is in life is to pursue the "impossible", peace and perfection, in god's eyes, ours, whatever.
"This nation is on the raod to something far better than it suffered under when Saddam was calling the shots and the lives saved by our intervention will far outweight those lost from doing nothing."
One can only hope your right, but to leave it at, as if that is all that is at hand is niave.
If you want to know what this war is about you must only read PNAC (Project For A New American Century). Coming from a military backround it should make perfect sense to you. To whether you agree with their ideals or not I'm curious too.
But if you don't think that are any other driving factors to war in Iraq than people's freedom, you are sadly mistaken, not to mention clueless.
Resources and Military Poise. Resources including, OIL (which is A factor), commercial import export, including military industrial.
Military Poise being pretty simple, bases throughout middle east region, occupy and dominate.
All empires seek to cleanse the all others of their inherent evils while bringing their self proclaimed illumination. All while neglecting or flat out hiding the fact that they themselves are a festering cesspool of corruption that cost innocent lives in a myriad of ways for just as many reasons.
And for a powerful "free" nation to be corrupt at its core takes an equally powerful corruption, to spread this kind of corruption can be reasonably viewed as potentially far more dangerous than Puppet Regimes.
This becoming more relevant in regards to the history of the situation which is oddly lacking in significant review.
"You're free to disagree all you like - but dont ever make the mistake of questioning my knowledge or experience. I was getting shot at by North Koreans when you were still a dream in your father's eyes."
(Your not even as old as my father according to your posted age, how were you being shot at by N Koreans?)
The first persons in need of being questioned about their knowledge, experience, and beliefs are those who claim no need for it.
Questions aren't enemies of truth, enemies of questions are. Questions are needed to expose weakness and corruption so as to strengthen and correct.
So prepare to be questioned.
"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"
[ Edited by Ironwood at
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