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60 Posts / 89M
     :   24yrs   :  
bmxbiker16

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"I may disagree with what you say, but i'll defend to the death your right to say it"
[  Edited by bmxbiker16 at   ]

4001 Posts / 51M
     :   31yrs   :  
Ironwood

P.S. I also believe this is to prevent beligerant nation from starting WWIII...

who were you referring to?

http://www.unobserver.com/index.php?pagina=layout5.php&id=815&b
lz=1



Arming Iraq and the Path to War, by John King

2003-03-31 | This is an accurate chronology of United States' involvement in the arming of Iraq during the Iraq-Iran war. It is a powerful indictment of the current bush administration attempt to sell war as a component of his war on terrorism. It reveals our ambitions in Iraq to be just another chapter in the attempt to regain a foothold in the Mideast following the fall of the Shah of Iran.

A crisis always has a history, and the current crisis with Iraq is no exception. Below are some relevant dates.

September 1980. Iraq invades Iran. The beginning of the Iraq-Iran war. (8)

February 1982. Despite objections from Congress, President Reagan removes Iraq from its list of known terrorist countries. (1)

December 1982. Hughes Aircraft ships 60 Defender helicopters to Iraq. (9)

1982-1988. Defense Intelligence Agency provides detailed information for Iraq on Iranian deployments, tactical planning for battles, plans for air strikes and bomb damage assessments. (4)

November 1983. A National Security Directive states that the U.S would do "whatever was necessary and legal" to prevent Iraq from losing its war with Iran. (1) (15)

November 1983. Banca Nazionale del Lavoro of Italy and its Branch in Atlanta begin to funnel $5 billion in unreported loans to Iraq. Iraq, with the blessing and official approval of the U.S. government, purchased computer controlled machine tools, computers, scientific instruments, special alloy steel and aluminum, chemicals, and other
industrial goods for Iraq's missile, chemical, biological and nuclear weapons programs. (14)

October 1983. The Reagan Administration begins secretly allowing Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, and Egypt to transfer United States weapons, including Howitzers, Huey helicopters, and bombs to Iraq. These shipments violated the Arms Export Control Act. (16)

November 1983. George Schultz, the Secretary of State, is given intelligence reports showing that Iraqi troops are daily using chemical weapons against the Iranians. (1)

December 20 1983. Donald Rumsfeld, then a civilian and now Defense Secretary, meets with Saddam Hussein to assure him of US friendship and materials support. (1) (15)

July 1984. CIA begins giving Iraq intelligence necessary to calibrate its mustard gas attacks on Iranian troops. (19)

January 14 1984. State Department memo acknowledges United States shipment of "dual-use" export hardware and technology. Dual use items are civilian items such as heavy trucks, armored ambulances and communications gear as well as industrial technology that can have a military application. (2)

March 1986. The United States with Great Britain block all Security Council resolutions condemning Iraq's use of chemical weapons, and on March 21 the U.S. becomes the only country refusing to sign a Security Council statement condemning Iraq's use of these weapons. (10)

May 1986. The U.S. Department of Commerce licenses 70 biological exports to Iraq between May of 1985 and 1989, including at least 21 batches of lethal strains of anthrax. (3)

May 1986. US Department of Commerce approves shipment of weapons grade botulin poison to Iraq. (7)

March 1987. President Reagan bows to the findings of the Tower Commission admitting the sale of arms to Iran in exchange for hostages. Oliver North uses the profits from the sale to fund an illegal war in Nicaragua. (17)

Late 1987. The Iraqi Air Force begins using chemical agents against Kurdish resistance forces in northern Iraq. (1)

February 1988. Saddam Hussein begins the "Anfal" campaign against the Kurds of northern Iraq. The Iraq regime used chemical weapons against the Kurds killing over 100,000 civilians and destroying over 1,200 Kurdish villages. (8)

April 1988. US Department of Commerce approves shipment of chemicals used in manufacture of mustard gas. (7)

August 1988. Four major battles were fought from April to August 1988, in which the Iraqis massively and effectively used chemical weapons to defeat the Iranians. Nerve gas and blister agents such as mustard gas are used. By this time the U.S. Defense Intelligence Agency is heavily involved with Saddam Hussein in battle plan assistance, intelligence gathering and post battle debriefing. In the last major battle with of the war, 65,000 Iranians are killed, many with poison gas. Use of chemical weapons in war is in violation of the Geneva accords of 1925. (6) (13)

August 1988. Iraq and Iran declare a cease fire. (8)

August 1988. Five days after the cease fire Saddam Hussein sends his planes and helicopters to northern Iraq to begin massive chemical attacks against the Kurds. (8)

September 1988. U.S. Department of Commerce approves shipment of weapons grade anthrax and botulinum to Iraq. (7)

September 1988. Richard Murphy, Assistant Secretary of State: "The US-Iraqi relationship is... important to our long-term political and economic objectives." (15)

December 1988. Dow chemical sells $1.5 million in pesticides to Iraq despite knowledge that these would be used in chemical weapons. (1)

July 25, 1990. U.S. Ambassador to Baghdad meets with Hussein to assure him that President Bush "wanted better and deeper relations." Many believe this visit was a trap set for Hussein. A month later Hussein invaded Kuwait thinking the U.S. would not respond. (12)

August 1990. Iraq invades Kuwait. The precursor to the Gulf War. (8)

July 1991. The Financial Times of London reveals that a Florida chemical company had produced and shipped cyanide to Iraq during the 80's using a special CIA courier. Cyanide was used extensively against the Iranians. (11)

August 1991. Christopher Droguol of Atlanta's branch of Banca Nazionale del Lavoro is arrested for his role in supplying loans to Iraq for the purchase of military supplies. He is charged with 347 counts of felony. Droguol is found guilty, but U.S. officials plead innocent of any knowledge of his crime. (14)

June 1992. Ted Koppel of ABC Nightline reports: "It is becoming increasingly clear that George Bush, Sr., operating largely behind the scenes throughout the 1980s, initiated and supported much of the financing, intelligence, and military help that built Saddam's Iraq into [an aggressive power]." (5)

July 1992. "The Bush administration deliberately, not inadvertently, helped to arm Iraq by allowing U.S. technology to be shipped to Iraqi military and to Iraqi defense factories... Throughout the course of the Bush administration, U.S. and foreign firms were granted export licenses to ship U.S. technology directly to Iraqi weapons facilities despite ample evidence showing that these factories were producing weapons." Representative Henry Gonzalez, Texas, testimony before the House. (18)

February 1994. Senator Riegle from Michigan, chairman of the Senate Banking Committee, testifies before the senate revealing large U.S. shipments of dual-use biological and chemical agents to Iraq that may have been used against U.S. troops in the Gulf War and probably was the cause of the illness known as Gulf War Syndrome. (7)

August 2002. "The use of gas [during the Iran-Iraq war] on the battle field by the Iraqis was not a matter of deep strategic concern... We were desperate to make sure that Iraq did not lose." Colonel Walter Lang, former senior U.S. Defense Intelligence officer tells the New York Times. (4)

This chronology of the United States' sordid involvement in the arming of Iraq can be summarized in this way: the United States used methods both legal and illegal to help build Saddam's army into the most powerful army in the Mideast outside of Israel. The U.S. supplied chemical and biological agents and technology to Iraq when it knew Iraq was using chemical weapons against the Iranians. The U.S. supplied the materials and technology for these weapons of mass destruction to Iraq at a time when it was known that Saddam was using this technology to kill his Kurdish citizens. The United States supplied intelligence and battle planning information to Iraq when those battle plans included the use of cyanide, mustard gas and nerve agents. The United States blocked U.N. censure of Iraq's use of chemical weapons. The United States did not act alone in this effort. The Soviet Union was the largest weapons supplier, but England, France and Germany were also involved in the shipment of arms and technology.

So what do these events have to do with the current conflict?

Just this: If we do go to war with Iraq, it is important to know why! War will not really be about terrorism! Twenty years ago the United States threw its support behind Saddam Hussein in a geopolitical bid for enhanced access to oil. The trajectory given him by our support lead directly to the Gulf War and to the current crises. War, after all, will be about a history of misdeeds and miscalculations. And war will not be about morality. War will be about cynicism, deceit and a thirst for oil that knows no boundaries.

John King
Long Prairie, MN, USA.

(ED. Note: Although this article was written before the attack began, the analysis still rings true.)

Sources

1. Washingtonpost.com. December 30, 2002
2. Jonathan Broder. Nuclear times, Winter 1990-91
3. Kurt Nimno. AlterNet. September 23, 2002
4. Newyorktimes.com. August 29, 2002
5. ABC Nightline. June 9, 1992
6. Counter Punch, October 10, 2002
7. Riegle Report: Dual Use Exports. Senate Committee on Banking. May 25, 1994
8. Timeline: A walk Through Iraq's History. U.S. Department of State
9. Doing Business: The Arming of Iraq. Daniel Robichear
10. Glen Rangwala. Labor Left Briefing, 16 September, 2002
11. Financial Times of London. July 3, 1991
12. Elson E. Boles. Counter Punch. October 10, 2002
13. Iran-Iraq War, 1980-1988. Iranchamber.com
14. Columbia Journalism Review. March/April 1993. Iraqgate
15. Times Online. December 31, 2002. How U.S. Helped Iraq Build Deadly Arsenal
16. Bush's Secret Mission. The New Yorker Magazine. November 2, 1992
17. Grolier Multimedia Encyclopedia: Iran-Contra Affair
18. Congressional Record. July 27, 1992. Representative Henry B. Gonzalez
19. Bob Woodward. CIA Aiding Iraq in Gulf War. Washington Post.
15 December, 1986
20. WWW.gendercide.com
http://www.gendercide.com

http://www.gendercide.com

http://www.gendercide.com/
Case Study: The Anfal Campaign

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Strategic Pastoral Action
PO Box 3272
Holland, MI, 49422-3272 USA
http://www.spanweb.org

mailto:humanrights@spanweb.org
Nonviolence Advocacy Project:
http://www.rehberg.net/nonviolence.html

________________________________________________________

Please also read: Iraq-Gate;
How The United States Illegally Armed Saddam Hussein
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article1412.htm

________________________________________________________

“All great truth is dealt with in three ways: First it is ridiculed; then it is violently opposed; and finally it is accepted as self-evident.”A. Schopenhauer, famous German philosopher

“An important scientific innovation rarely makes its way by gradually winning over and converting its opponents: what does happen is its opponents gradually die out and the growing generation is familiarized with the idea from the beginning.”Max Planck, father of modern physics

"The prophet courageously challenges oppressive social structures of which the church may be an integral part. The prophet is the end result of the best in the tradition and spirituality of the church - which soon, sadly, drives him or her out."-- J. Milton Yinger, 1946





"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"
[  Edited by Ironwood at   ]

4001 Posts / 51M
     :   31yrs   :  
Ironwood

more interesting Iraq history?

http://hnn.us/comments/8770.html


"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"

48 Posts / 51M
     :   47yrs   :  
nugamer

BMX, very good!

...And, by the way, I think the voting age should be at least 31 or at least require that all voters have some accredited knowledge of history; even ancient history.

The demise of democracy occurs when people vote with their hearts instead of their minds.


"Life, Liberty, & Property Rights."

4001 Posts / 51M
     :   31yrs   :  
Ironwood

Good point gamer, but with the info we are given, I'm not sure it really matters, I think we all vote fairly ignorantly.

What do you guys know about that info I posted, it agrees with but puts a very serious and different light on the situation as presented by bmx?

I've heard this before and am sincerely concerned.


"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"

SITE ADMIN
2848 Posts / 94M
     :   28yrs   :  
Decius

When you view the world from inside a bubble, BMX, you can believe whatever you want.

I like your facts though.

"Saddam was an evil bastard. Fact."
"We freed the Iraqi people. Fact."
"They should trust us now, cause we've changed. Fact."
"We've changed cause it's not the same president. It's his son. Fact."

lol.

Ridiculous. You are not the man. You're a gun toting kid who should be playing video games and chasing poon.

The Nazi regime survived due to weak minds like yours. Think about it.


"Hating everyone protects me from elitism."

SITE ADMIN
2848 Posts / 94M
     :   28yrs   :  
Decius

You're not a baby killer.

Your identity is created by you being a soldier. Whatever natural insecurities you may have had as a child or teenager, you dealt with these (as most people do) by finding a place to belong, and something to believe in.

Through whatever influence it was, you adopted this belief in the army, patriotism, and over time have become more and more involved in this. In essence, supporting the army and being proud to be a soldier qualifies your own existance, because you never quite gained your own ability to be confident, hence it lends a helping hand.

This is why often when you sign posts you state your military rank and/or position and/or squad, because you feel incomplete without that designation. In fact, if you speak to someone who does not know you are in the army, it feels somewhat uncomfortable until they know you are in the army, so you gain all the confidence that comes with being an American soldier nowadays.

That confidence is created because you convince yourself and are constantly convinced by those around you that being a soldier is a pious and noble career... something that proves you strong and courageous, for you are willing to place your life on the line for your morals.

This is almost exactly what Nazi Germany preyed on when they recruited soldiers. They made it proud and noble to rat on your friends and family, to beat and torture jews, to be part of the proud and noble Aryan race.

This similar comparison is completely accurate, because both you and a Nazi soldier are willing to do anything to avoid facing the reality that security, self security, cannot be adopted. It must be learnt.

I am not posting this to attack you. I am posting this so you can try to understand who you are, what you are doing, and the grave implications this will have on you for the rest of your life. The things you do due to insecurity, especially things that in any way harm others, prevent you from ever truly facing your insecurity, because the guilt will be almost deafening.


"Hating everyone protects me from elitism."

SITE ADMIN
2848 Posts / 94M
     :   28yrs   :  
Decius

And insecurities, specifically, have a way of wanting to sustain themselves. Therefore any anger or resentment you may feel, any pit you might try to throw my way for being so foolish, is all the result of a symbiotic psychological organism that is preying on you.


"Hating everyone protects me from elitism."

4001 Posts / 51M
     :   31yrs   :  
Ironwood

You almost make it sound as if militaries are wrong or unnecessary, the nazi comparison is accurate only in terms of loyalty and any depending authority abuse by leaders, I've been the military and the security/insecurity issues can be quite true (were for me) but it is also just a job( especially in times of peace), it is an accomplishment, and patriotism towards the possitive aspects is a good thing, overlooking the bad for the patriotism is not.

All of our country's were built on blood, this is just the way of the world. The lovely survival of the fittest at work.

But I still await bmx and all others comments on that above info I posted, because I can't help but feel that things are not as clear as the info bmx origanally posted.


"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"

SITE ADMIN
2848 Posts / 94M
     :   28yrs   :  
Decius

Although the past is good to view, and necessary noble soldiers from the past should be revered, we live in a day and age when armies are no longer defending the rights of freedom.

I do not believe the military, in it's strength as it is right now, is at all necessary. The world is run by economics, not might.


"Hating everyone protects me from elitism."

4001 Posts / 51M
     :   31yrs   :  
Ironwood

Its still evident that all kinds of people are still willing to get physical for any number or reasons, especially economic.


"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"

SITE ADMIN
2848 Posts / 94M
     :   28yrs   :  
Decius

Which requires armed forces?

Such as who? Who will invade the states with soldiers?

Terrorism and WMDs are threats. A military invasion is not.

And if it is, a small fraction of the funds spent on the military can be used for "defensive" measures.

Nothing justifies this monster that exists, eating up the money it does.


"Hating everyone protects me from elitism."

4001 Posts / 51M
     :   31yrs   :  
Ironwood

I don't claim to know the size or expense of the military, and I was in it, I do know that people are often underpaid and that cutbacks have been non-stop for some time. And before I'm going to get too worried about my military's budget I want rediculous spending in government stopped, which goes right along with military spending I know but I mean frivelous and expensive nonsense on a scale that no bounds.


"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"

SITE ADMIN
2848 Posts / 94M
     :   28yrs   :  
Decius

I'm not a socialist, quite the opposite.

But if you're going to take money from the people, spend it on them. Not killing their neighbours.


"Hating everyone protects me from elitism."

4001 Posts / 51M
     :   31yrs   :  
Ironwood

In a lot of ways our armies are often the world's army, along with allied ventures we assist other countries in what begin as true calls for help, unfortunately our government is so greedy and short sighted that their "good" intentions become Saddam Hussein, go figure.


"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"

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