Defining God

Your making very grand assumptions there buddy, to say that the universe is autonomous is a hefty assumption, and takes any faults from god, other than he made it an autonomous killing machine, which doesn't sound much better to me

And a point I have to enjoyably dice to pieces is you mention of free will and god saving interaction, that is the basis of believing the bible as well as its message, that god does everything for a purpose including kill us, like soddam and ghemora, spelling, and its full of god interventions that just stopped. Very fishy and completely contrary to any statement you have made, are you coming from a religious belief standpoint or what? Just curious, cause some people here often use religious explanations in their debates and then claim no affiliation with them, so just so I can understand your possistion do I ask.

"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"

Well, I m niether religious nor un religious, kinda nuetral I guess.

Yeah, many relgions say that everything happens because of God, and happens because of a reason.
I don't beleive that things have pre-determined purposes to them, we can give incidents a purpose, a reason. If a loved one dies, after some time, we may give it a purpose like saying that as a result we r now more spiritual etc.
Although I m not christian, but there could be various interpretations of the verse that everything happens for a purpose.
I'll say more later, i gtg.

"I'll heal ur woundz I'll set u free, I m jesus christ on xtacy"

If there is a God, then the universe is designed, then it must all have a purpose.

I mean, that purpose could be testing our morality for example. Individual bits of the universe maybe pointless and insignicant, but overall, it needs to have a purpose.

"Durch Nacht und Blut das Licht"

The problem with that is, God is all knowing and powerful, God doesn't need to test theories, he KNOWS, unless people are wrong and full of shit, which is most likely, well I can pretty much guarantee that people who prescribe to religious doctrines other than core beliefs, do unto others etc, are indeed full of shit and trying to convince themselves and the world otherwise.

"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"

so god wants us to live be good n die what's the point? who created god, i think its illogical that something came from nothing and infinite is inposiible for us to see but just have concept.. i think we tend tio believe in god for an answer thats higher and caring for us but we wacvve it up to nobody to figure out what came before.. so we just want it because it benifits us.. and in the bible isnt there people who believe in another god and dont beleive in jesus being a son of god? so why arent they justy as right or wrong? why do we follow the bible as that (father of jesus) is the "true" god when other people (and astil toay) belive in differant "gods"

"no quote until i copyright it.."

Indeed, why would a being like God have a will at all? All knowing and all powerful, what could God ever WANT?

Scott Adams onces invented a theory, half-seriously, that the only thing that could be challenging for God was suicide... And here we are, what's left of God.

Don't take it seriously though, even though, extremely loosely, I don't think its far from the truth.

"Durch Nacht und Blut das Licht"

What could God want? Well, that's even stuipider than the question if Hes just or unjust.

btw patape, no major religion in the world belives in 'our' God or 'your' God, they all say that there is only one, and also that all the books, like the Quran, Bible, have been written by the same God.


Basically, most major religions beleive that this world is a test, and we will be rewarded afterwards blah blah.
They say that the toughe a life u live, the greater the reward, like when ur givin an exam, if u give the harder one, it'l be more difficult, but if u pass, then it'lbe more rewarding.

"I'll heal ur woundz I'll set u free, I m jesus christ on xtacy"

"What could God want? Well, that's even stuipider than the question if Hes just or unjust."
No its not, why is putting us all through this test? Why does he care? How could a being like him have ANY motivation?

And the justness thing is stupid. Only the most cold and faithful person would pretend God is fair and just.

"Durch Nacht und Blut das Licht"

Hey angel, with the "our" god "your" god thing you said you are so wrong.

Specifically in Christianity there is an active term, exclusivism or something to that effect, it specifically states thats unless you follow the one "true" bible and the specific Christian beliefs you won't be one of the 114,000 or whatever number is only going to be saved. Plus, many religious wars are based on warring religions, practices or other things that fill the gap in you claim.

The religions may not name other religions and call them bad or false, they just tend to say not to believe in false prophetts and gods, al least in Christianity.

I'm pretty sure they don't say that all religions are actually claiming the same god.

I may be wrong here, and I don't claim to be a religious scholar or guruu, and I may have misenterpreted but I do believe there is a point here somewhere.

"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"

No, ur *definately* wrong there. whatever religion claims that only it's God is true, is a fake religion. The Quran makes it compulsory to beleive in all the prophets, and to be brotherly with the 'people of the book'. Yes, ofcourse the bible etc doesn't not mean by saying that there is only one universal God, that the Hindu Gods etc are also real. I mean, stone Gods etc are not 'Gods' in our sense.

The Quran infact specifically names the Books and religions which are the word of God, i.e the bible, the jews etc.
A true religion would know, that there is no christian God or Jewish God, there is only 'the' God.

Right, the bible states if u don't follow it's beleifs, u won't be one of the 'saved'. So whats the difference between the beliefs of the Bible and for example, the Quran?! If u believe in the Quran, ur beleiving in the Bible and vice versa.

Why does a Being like God has no motivation? Cuz ther's no such thing as motivation in reality! Greed, desire, happinness etc are all 'human' things, God is beyond them.

Why do I think the question God being Just or unjust is stuipid? Cuz in reality there is no such thing as just or unjust etc. How can a creator be good or evil. These are all human perceptions.

"I'll heal ur woundz I'll set u free, I m jesus christ on xtacy"

What we mean by "my god" and "there god". Is really "there VIEW of God" vs "your VIEW of god".

Both sides think they view of god is absolute and effects the other guy's lives, even if they dont believe in god the same way they do.

"Durch Nacht und Blut das Licht"

Angel are you familiar with Christianity, they actually say that other religions are wrong, look into it. And regardless of what the religion's rules are themselves, (because I said I didn't know what they all specifically taught on that issue), even with a religion stated "rules", there are still tons of people who argue the issue, even if the religions themselves don't, which Christianity does, which is why I really don't like Christianity and most religion ( a reason not the only one.)

Christians specifically try to recruit or convert because of that very fact.

"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"

Any one religion that claims any god is true is probably a fake religion, especially if they try to give information or details on this god, and even more especially if they try to claim personal or human interaction with this god.

"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"

You are of course referring to all religions?

"Durch Nacht und Blut das Licht"

especially when they claim god gives directions or plans and then claim god plans and will can never be known by man that its beyond human capacity, yet he decided to have cryptic conversations (that they claim to understand) (and god thinks this is the best form of communication when peoples etenally damnable souls are on the line?)

"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"