The Capitalism Debate!!!!

I am not saying that you do not have the right to choose nazism of capitalism. This is a democracy after all.

I am saying, that if you do pick something else, don't expect to be democratic much longer.

"Durch Nacht und Blut das Licht"

The problem is that capitalism is as great a threat to democracy as any other form of government.

"Terrorist or tyrant, few may come to the Truth that both are poor choice."

Wrong, capitalism allows the possibility of democracy, unlike other economic models.

"Durch Nacht und Blut das Licht"

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capitalism allows the possibility of democracy

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"A fool says I know and a wise man says I wonder."

"The way I see it, it's the other way around. Democracy allows for capitalism."
Nonesense, there a million countries who were capitalist before being democratic. You can idealistic about it and lie to yourself by saying "democracy will solve everything". However that is a lie. World War 2 shows that lie bare, Japan, Italy, Germany. 3 countries, 3 democracies that fell into fascism and imperialism. There have also been many countries in Africa (Ghana, Kenya, Rhodesia), who were democratic and have failed.

That idealistic lie allowed world war 2.

Secondly, countries like Pakistan, Turkey, Taiwan and South Korea were capitalist long before being democratic. I think your statement is completely ignorant of today's world and of history. It is guided by an idealistist blind and dangerous faith in democracy, because it makes the world so much simpler doesn't it?

" Clay Turtles ancestors new it."
We can no longer live like that (I assume you are referring to wild men), there are too many of us.

"When you have to work to pay bills because the tv tells your family what they should have and you cannot offord."
Capitalism assumes a certain maturity. Frankly, I don't approve of commercials in general, they are too manipulative. But that's no excuse, no one is forcing you to buy anything.

"Durch Nacht und Blut das Licht"

First I would like to thank you both for coming to my point.

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"The way I see it, it's the other way around. Democracy allows for capitalism."

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Nonesense, there a million countries who were capitalist before being democratic.

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We can no longer live like that (I assume you are referring to wild men), there are too many of us.

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"Terrorist or tyrant, few may come to the Truth that both are poor choice."

I do not think indians are in any way better then us. They harm their environment like we do (they wiped out every large mammal on the American continent). The only difference is that they don't have the technological ability to do more damage.

I do think that native american society is probably better suited to human need. Humans aren't made for living in huge cities, seeing strangers everyday, not exercising, having too much food etc... I think that biologically, native american society probably more suited to us.

However, today there are far too many of us, and even pragmatically, we cannot live like indians. If there is a characteristic to nomadic societies (indians, tungus, aboriginal australian, it doesnt matter), it is that they are invariably conquered and decimated by other peoples.

So, although perhaps ideally we should live hybrid lives. Half-scientific/capitalist, which allows us medicine, understanding and security and half-wild because it corresponds to our biological needs. But I don't think it is at all possible on a practical level.

"Durch Nacht und Blut das Licht"

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They harm their environment like we do (they wiped out every large mammal on the American continent). The only difference is that they don't have the technological ability to do more damage.

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"Terrorist or tyrant, few may come to the Truth that both are poor choice."

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You can idealistic about it and lie to yourself by saying "democracy will solve everything".

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Clay Turtles ancestors new it."
We can no longer live like that (I assume you are referring to wild men), there are too many of us.

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"A fool says I know and a wise man says I wonder."

"Most indignous tribes lived in a harmonious relation to their environment. Depleting a resource by killing off of large mammal (any animal) would be inherently wrong to them."
I'm not saying they *wanted* to kill off large mammals. But like all men on earth (except Africans, due to the fact large mammals evolved along side them), they killed and exterminated large animals (I'm actually thinking of giant 10 foot birds as well). Humans are fundamentally stupid, they killed off the animals, they may well have regretted later, more likely they never realised what they had done (this stuff takes time, generations).

" Call it democracy, call it what ever you "
The amount of freedom in capitalist societies varies enormously. Democracy is something very specific, though separate from capitalism, it cannot live long without it.

" A sad truth, but our only salvation is scientific technological advancements. But capitalism won't get us there, if anything, capitalism is more the problem then the solution."
If science is our salvation; know that science has advanced far far quicker under free market societies : namely Western Europe, North America and Japan. So I'm not sure (and doubt) that there is better alternative.

Or at the very least, there is no alternative that we know about.

"Durch Nacht und Blut das Licht"

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(I'm actually thinking of giant 10 foot birds as well).

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"Terrorist or tyrant, few may come to the Truth that both are poor choice."

No I'm talking of 10foot tall bird. Lived in madagascar I think (don't quote me on this), and was wiped out by the natives.

Truth is, all men kill, the only difference is their ability to kill.

"Durch Nacht und Blut das Licht"

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Or at the very least, there is no alternative that we know about.

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"A fool says I know and a wise man says I wonder."

Only God knows how you manage to exrtact that from my statements.

"Durch Nacht und Blut das Licht"

Only GOd knows why? I don't see it as that far out of context.
How is this country's government has been spending billions, trillions, etc during the period of time since WWII, developing technology to what supply the energy needs of future generations? By providing grants for reseach with military applications (primary) using humanitary (secondary) as their guise for such expenditures: nuclear power plants processing producing enrich uranium & plutonium; satillite systems for communication & orbital space stations for scientific reseach (starwar)? How much was granted to alternative energy resourse developement? (search keyword Timothy Leary).
Yes scientific knowledge has grown at a phemnominal rate but in what direction. Where is this leading us, to an independent people or to a dependecy upon capitalism? Inflated earnings doesn't pay off in the end, or will theypull a rabbit out of their hat as supply dwindle to null to grant the people alternative sources?

"Terrorist or tyrant, few may come to the Truth that both are poor choice."