900 years of the West against Islam

it works if they're enriched by it!
Japan and Korea's cultures were so different from Americo-european some thought it was impossible for a shift to a corporate culture.

However, both countries have succesfully westernised.

"Durch Nacht und Blut das Licht"

I think we need to set some things straight here. It did not start with the crusades as the original argument stated. Muslim armies conquered Arabia, Syria, Egypt, the Persian Empire, the coast of North Africa, and Spain in the seventh and eighth centuries. The advance into Europe was not checked until Muslim armies were defeated by Charles Martel at the battle of Tours in 732. Your assertion that this is a religious war is equally ludicrous. What don't you understand about Al-Quaeda wanting to kill us. The possibility of these terrorist buying Iraqi WMD was just to great. Don't be naive and say there were no WMD (sarin artillary shell used on roadside bomb today in Iraq). We can be naive and let things happen to us and respond like Clinton or we can be proactive. Any comparison to Vietnam is also inaccurate. The only comparison between the two is the media. How it costs us the war in Vietnam and how it is damaging our efforts in Iraq.

It is indeed black and white.

Do you trust your country and leaders enough to believe they are able to "liberate" another country? Of course not.

Is aggression and becoming a first strike nation part of the age old US constitution? Of course not.

Is the US in an economically and spiritually mature position whereby they may know what is good for other nations? Of course not. The US economy is dead, the US dollar is dead, the US people are not happy, the US educational system is hacked, and everyone around the world hates the US.

The only positive argument about the Iraq war is that we removed Saddam. Yet the chaos that has insued has killed more people than when he was in power. More Americans, for sure.

In other words....

Due to Bush trying to "protect" Americans, he has sent more Americans to their death at the hands of a foreign dictator than have died in the last decade at the hands of the same dictator.

Doesn't sound like a very successful campaign given that no one considered Saddam a threat until Bush said he was.

"Hating everyone protects me from elitism."

Yes, I do trust my country and leaders to believe they are able to "liberate" another country. We have shown that we are not imperialist. We do not want Iraq as a territory. As far as first strike, UN resolution 1441 authorized use of force to make Saddam comply. Do not forget, we are at war. As far as the economy, 8.2%, 4.2%, 4.1% increases the last three quarters in GNP. I would say that is a booming economy. More people are employed today than any other time in history. 139 millionworking Amerians (comapared to 137.5 million when Bush took office). I would say things are looking good. I will agree that the educational system with the liberal agenda is "hacked". Saddam average killing over 300 people a day for over 15 years. So, you are saying over 100,000 people have died as a result of our involvement? Even the most liberal numbers are far from that. Seems you have a lot of facts incorrect.

"Yes, I do trust my country and leaders to believe they are able to "liberate" another country"

Therein lies the basis of fallacy in your thinking. Trust only what is the most likely option. Greed is the basis of life for anyone in a high income bracket. You do not become rich unless you are greedy. If you are greedy, you care only for what people can give you, not what you can give them. Hence, trusting an administration like this is like giving the keys to your house to Snake the neighbourhood rapist.

And if you do not think this is correct, you are poor, work a dead end job, and killed off any aspirations long ago to live in your little happy bubble.

Only once you acknowledge that everyone is out to screw you do you catch a glimpse of what your President is trying to do.

"Hating everyone protects me from elitism."

"The US economy is dead, the US dollar is dead, the US people are not happy, the US educational system is hacked, and everyone around the world hates the US."
That's FAR too strong Decius.
The US is still #1, even if its position is declining.

"Durch Nacht und Blut das Licht"

Hmm, I have a what some consider a high income job (6 figures) and I always thought it was the American dream, not greed. How silly of me. As far as the greed part, charitable organizations and my church would disagree with your assessment also. In addition, the thousands of hours of community service in various organizations kind of skews your point of view that the almighty dollar is the bottom line.

quote:

---

Greed is the basis of life for anyone in a high income bracket. You do not become rich unless you are greedy. If you are greedy, you care only for what people can give you, not what you can give them. Hence, trusting an administration like this is like giving the keys to your house to Snake the neighbourhood rapist.

---

"A fool says I know and a wise man says I wonder."

Let's see, war ended in 732 so we decide, nearly 400 years later to retaliate??? Which war of retaliation is next??? Shall we go back 400 years? 2004-400=1604??? England and Spain? Why?
Since the beginning of the Crusades our western Christian culture has been trying to eradicate the Islamic culture. When was the last time a Muslim knocked on your door and asked if you were "really saved"? When was the last time the Muslims sent missionaries to other countries to try to convert them from their pagan ways? We have, are, and will be fighting Islam until we destroy or are destroyed. Perhaps I am jaded. Perhaps I look for changes in our culture in all the wrong places. Perhaps Mary, mother of Jesus, wasn't really sent to live with her sister in another town when she was found to be pregnant and unmarried like we did to our daughters in the 1950's and 60's. Perhaps the Jews and the Philistines (oops, sorry, the Palestinians) got their sh*t together and aren't still fighting 3000+ years later. Perhaps times and circumstances change. Perhaps some of us have our heads buried in the sand. Perhaps our president is counting on that.

"Popular dissidents are merely pacifiers given to us by the Government to keep us in line and thinking someone is making a ruckuss."

Nonesense squateam. The US didn't eradicate paganism in Japan or Catholicism in Italy.
The US is a strongly religious country, but it doesn't represent White Anglo-Saxon Protestants, it represents democracy, political and economic freedoms.
The US may not always manage to bring these values to those it fights (in fact often just the opposite), but when it does, the results can be spectacular.

"Durch Nacht und Blut das Licht"

Being in Nam, the one thing which changed my mind about that war and this one is unlike our own struggle for independence, we revolted & sought aid in our fight for independence. They weren't, for the greater part the people were not supportive of these war. It is not democracy if the people don't want it. P.S. I'm not talking about those who want to get rich of war.

quote:

---

The US may not always manage to bring these values to those it fights (in fact often just the opposite), but when it does, the results can be spectacular.

---

"Terrorist or tyrant, few may come to the Truth that both are poor choice."