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What's Wrong With Islams Leaders?

User Thread
 61yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that okcitykid is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
What's Wrong With Islams Leaders?
If you are a follower of Islam - I would like to hear from you - You're very welcome here. I have read part of your scriptures and studied a little bit of your religion.

This is what I believe. I believe suicide terrorism would stop IF: Islam's religious leaders would point their fingers at the terrorists and tell them to stop it. And even disparage the belief that such terrorists will go to heaven and have at there disposal many, many virgins. I might be wrong, but they could at least make the effort, or are they? - any comments.

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"A fool says I know and a wise man says I wonder."
 36yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Wyote is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
thats a good thought, but i really dont see it doing much, or even happening for that matter. somehow this group of people has formed the idea that commiting suicide will grant them a wonderous afterlife, i think if ALL the religeous leaders did start pointing fingers, this group would simply find new leaders that did not do so. im not familiar with Islam however, and as such my thinking could be heavily flawed. people point their finger at snake handlers of the christian faith, but it doesnt stop them from doing it. i guess thats not a very good comparison since one is harming others and the other is harming themselves, but you get the idea...

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"A loving heart is the beginning of all knowledge. - Thomas Carlyle"
 61yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that okcitykid is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
I don't know a whole lot myself. I did listen to something disturbing just after 9/11. Religious leaders of the Islamic faith were asked to condemn terrorist actions. They wouldn't do it, instead, they side stepped the issue by turning right around and pointing fingers at Israel. It will do no good for Christians and Jews to point fingers, that would just create more hatred. One wrong does not right another wrong. Their scriptures teach this, so why don't they?

The Jews believe that someday the messiah will come.
The Christians believe that the messiah came, but will return
Islam believes that the messiah has returned.

They are related to each other and have almost identical old testament scriptures. So what's the problem?

Maybe the Christian and Jewish leaders could make more of an effort to befriend their brother Islam. But I'm not afraid to call the Islamic leaders on this one. They can stop this thing, by refusing to condemn the terrorists, they are encouraging this.

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"A fool says I know and a wise man says I wonder."
 33yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Angelfire is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
"Islam believes that the messiah has returned. "
Are you sure? I thought in Islam it was that the messiah, like the Jews, never came yet. That's why they disregard Jesus as our saviour and instead treat him as a prophet, second to Mohamed.

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"Durch Nacht und Blut das Licht"
 61yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that okcitykid is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Maybe Messiah is the wrong word. Messiah means something different to everybody, just about. Islam does not believe that Jesus is the son of god. They consider Jesus to be a great prophet. And Jesus said he was going to return. When Jesus returned, his name was Mohammed. There was a second Mohammed. He waged war on everyone in that part of the world in the name of the great prophet Mohammed. This bothered me, I stopped studying Islam. I could have missed something or misunderstood something. Both Islam and Christianity believe they have to convert the whole world over to their beliefs to fulfill a prophecy, so ofcourse, they will clash. Abraham had two sons. One is the father of the Jews, the other is the father of the Palistenians. The two brothers didn't get along. So go figure, the Palistenians and the Jews have been fighting since the beginning.

I didn't know that Islam is waiting for someone to return, but then, I didn't finish my studies.

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"A fool says I know and a wise man says I wonder."
 33yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Angelfire is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
The virgins thing just illustrates the kind of bliss you can expect in heaven.

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"Durch Nacht und Blut das Licht"
 68yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that cturtle is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
After 9-11 I started looking around to understand Islam better. This site may not be active .
http://www.answering-christianity.com/
It seemed to be a valid Islamic site which devoted itself to answering and questioning Christianity, I hope it still active.

From it I gather that Decius may be wrong, they may well do these things in the desire to bring others to their senses, just as the young buddist in Nam set fire to herself to protest war.

Having given the link, I decided it would be a good thing to check the site. Well, it certainly has changed but I did follow a link which did provide Islamic beief about Jesus.
http://www.answering-christianity.com/jesus_hypocrite.htm But you would have to read it nearly to the end to find out the Quaran contained reference to Jesus. And I have to admit there is a great deal of anger in the spirit of presentation that wasn't as prevailent back when I first came upon the site.

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"Terrorist or tyrant, few may come to the Truth that both are poor choice."
[  Edited by cturtle at   ]
 35yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that sentient is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Good site for a Christian to visit

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"Reality is the leading cause of stress amongst those in touch with it."
 61yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that okcitykid is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
"And religions leaders that tell Muslims not to be angry at the west for supporting an Israel that suppresses them would be lynched, and rightly so if you ask me."

This is the part I don't understand. We're talking about the terrorists (not just the angry people). Why are we taking sides for or against Israel? Terrorism is wrong, very wrong, and the religious leaders of the Muslim faith have a responsibility to condemn it. If Christians did this today, I would expect the Pope, Billy Graham and others to do the same. If they didn't, I'd get after them too.

Agreed, it is a little tougher for the religious leaders of the Muslim faith - they have a lot of anger to deal with, and a few of them have been killed already. but never-the-less, you die for what you believe in. If their faith teaches non violence then they have a responsibility to teach it, they are the leaders, otherwise their religion is a violent one or they are not true to it.

Just because you are angry, you don't have the right to kill innocent people, if we don't condemn this, then we are saying it is ok, that's wrong. This is what it sounds like, "your anger has caused you to be a terrorist, that's ok, Its not your fault, Israel and the west makes you angry.

That is silly, stupid, wrong. Both the west and Israel have donated tons of food and medicine. I know that their land has been taken away. Is life the value of a piece of land? Our government took the land away from the indians, does that mean an indian has a right to blow up my house, especially with me and my children in it?

Clay - thanks for the link - I did book mark it and will check it out.

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"A fool says I know and a wise man says I wonder."
[  Edited by okcitykid at   ]
 68yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that cturtle is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Just because you are angry, you don't have the right to kill innocent people, if we don't condemn this, then we are saying it is ok, that's wrong.
The point of their argument is that Christianity has condoned the acts of force (murder, lies , deciet) to promote their way of life. Just look at our actions against the native inhabitants anywhere they do not accept our values anywhere in the world. We will try to buy our way into acceptance and if we don't get our way then we will take what ever steps necessary to dominate over them. This is the undeclared (cold) war which we wage against all who do not accept our values.
This is what it sounds like, "your anger has caused you to be a terrorist, just because we say it is ok if Israel and the west takes your land & kills your citizens.
We armed Israel with nuclear capacity as well ws advance conventional weapons, then stand aside as they don't use them defensively but offensively to reclaim 'their lands'.
Neither we nor they seek peaceful resolution which beneficet all but seek our own. No matter, nor means are to beniegn for us to use, Christian support for these actions only justify their perception of US as the United States of (the) Abomination, according to our own Christian teachings.

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"Terrorist or tyrant, few may come to the Truth that both are poor choice."
[  Edited by cturtle at   ]
 61yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that okcitykid is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
I heard a news report that there were Israeli air force pilots who were dishonorably discharged because they refused to fly into the occupied territories and shoot innocent people. I think these pilots deserve a medal for this.

From the beginning of time, Israel and the Palestinians have been at war. In certain parts of the bible, the Israelites are told to kill everyone, even women and children to posses there promised land. Another reason I don't believe in the bible, I don't believe God would tell anyone to do that.

My mother complains all the time about how unfair Israel has been and is.

I don't disagree with these things. But dead innocent people is not the answer. Six million Jews were put to death, this is why we decided that Israel needed to be a nation again. At that time the Arab nations were no threat to us or anyone. We haven't been exactly fair and neither has Israel. The strange thing is though, the Arab nations would have no power at all if it wasn't for its best customer, the western nations, who they terrorize. We didn't steal their oil, we paid for it. It is true that we help Israel more, but we still help them as well, making the desert a place to live. When Iran had that terrible earthquake, most of their aid came from the United States.

I know that there are many different factions, groups, etc. Even there political leaders like Arafat condemn terrorism. But I don't here condemnation from the religious leadership from any faction against terrorism. Maybe I'm missing something. Our media isn't the best. Clay, I have your links, I will join their chat room and hopefully we can discuss it peacefully and they can defend themselves and prove to me that they don't condone terrorism.

FRIEND - I'll keep you up to date - thanks : )

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"A fool says I know and a wise man says I wonder."
 61yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that okcitykid is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Their chat room is closed, but I found this on their site:

September 11 from the Islamic perspective. Why is it justified?

I forwarded it to you, I let you decide.



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"A fool says I know and a wise man says I wonder."
 33yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Angelfire is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
You can't just say THE Islamic perspective. There are many different Islamic churches, and each I'm sure has their own take on the issue.
There is the extremist perspective, the priest's perspective and the casual none-practicer's perspective among others.

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"Durch Nacht und Blut das Licht"
 68yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that cturtle is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
each I'm sure has their own take on the issue, right you are teen, I knew a shop owner in GCS when I lived there.
His take on things were different (common person) from the perceptions given by the author of the site.
OKciy: Better send it again I didn't recieve your e-mail. Ya I tried to email address (page) and ended up going around in circles for a while then I went to chat room but found it empty so I wrote my questions statements anyway. I managed to get to a valid e-mail addres(?) after that, I am still waiting for a reply.

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"Terrorist or tyrant, few may come to the Truth that both are poor choice."
 61yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that okcitykid is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Dumbteen: I agree - I don't think the person who created that site is really Islam, but an Islam wanta be. I can't believe that any real religion can believe in violence. And Clay - I've been surfing around and it seems like just like they are in a fickle way, so are their web sites.

I want to here what a real Islam person has to say. I found a place, Islam Online. I'm sending them a message - Will let you know. : )

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"A fool says I know and a wise man says I wonder."
What's Wrong With Islams Leaders?
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