TRYING TO UNDERSTAND GOD

TRYING TO UNDERSTAND GOD [+ favourites]

From seeking the Lord Jesus with all my heart, I have found that being humble in the journey is a blessing. What I mean is, people try to understand God, but how can we humans understand the CREATOR of our souls? Isn't that like a human building something and expecting what they built to understand them? Or maybe, even better, humans can't even fathom the human mind and how it works, so why should we be able to understand His? What do you have to say?

[  Edited by stealph at   ]

I think if God has created us, then some of us were given an inquisitive mind as well.

Some of us don't have faith in 3rd party ideas because our faith has been shattered from other experiences in our lives.

A faith in anything (god, parents, democracy) is based on our ability to be blindly faithful... blindly meaning without a logical reason to do so.

Some of us just don't do things unless they seem logical... and hence a belief in god must be explored deeply before it is accepted.

It isn't disrespectful, it is just the way some of us are.

That being said, I firmly believe we will fail miserably in our attempts to understand why we are here.

...specifically because of exactly what you said... it is far too large a concept for our tiny minds to contemplate.

But seeking the truth with logic is just as infantile as seeking the truth through "jesus", because a religious belief is as mediocre as any other, because, well, our minds are too tiny to understand the "truth".

Whether you assume there is a god, an angry god, or jesus, they are all hacks for us to get on with our lives because we will never know the truth.

"Hating everyone protects me from elitism."

N O A R G U M E N T C A N SUSTAIN I T S E L F
without agreeing on a basis. So, if you don't believe in what the Bible says, you will have a hard time with this thread. My basis is what the bible says.

Having faith is logical to me. I have to define logic and agree on what it is in order to have conversations with people about logic. If we don't agree on what logic is, how can we rightfully discuss it? That goes for anything... right?

If seeking the truth is infantile, then what is mature? To not seek the truth and just live and die? One can seek the truth, but one can't try and decalre a standard for what the truth is without opposition because everyone's not going to agree.

Im not saying our minds are too tiny to understand the truth, I'm saying our minds are too tiny to understand God. Indirectly, God establishes truth and once we accept God as esablishing truth, we understand what truth is.

We will know the truth on the day we are Judged.

Seeking Jesus for truth isn't what I intend to question, because from what I believe, Jesus is the way to Heaven, that's my goal, and the reason why we are here is to serve God. Humans get upset when they see that because of conceit. WHY SHOULD I SERVE GOD?.... bla bla bla, not just being humble and saying, "Yes to your will God"

Lets curve this thread right back to the point though, I was getting to HUMANS TRYING TO UNDERSTAND GOD, or FIGURE GOD OUT.

"Having faith is logical to me."
Well if you accept the bible as absolute truth sure
But its not like blindly accepting a book written 2000 years ago as fact is logica though

But anyway, I think we have to strive to understand, otherwise our interpretation of the bible could be false, in which case we would never be trully understanding God's word.

"AIDS is God's way of sending Catholics to heaven."

Lets think for a moment about understanding... I would have to make an analogy. We breathe air, but we dont see it, down to the atom which is not proven to exsit. Things are made up of things we made names for to make sure we "understand" what they are. i.e. "That is oxygen" OK So we cant see it, but we know it exsists because we experience breathing it. That is faith in air to be there when it is being breathed in. Do we understand it? No. Are we striving to understand it, yes. Why? Its air, just breathe.

So, I believe the Bible is God's word completely. It seems that 9/10 of the people on this cool website forum say, "It was written by man, it was written by man, its flawed because man is utterly flawed. The bible was inspired by the holy spirit through man which unless you have experienced you will doubt it. Everything agrees in the bible, nothing contradicts itself. You have to ask yourself, who wrote it, why did they write it, and who were they writing it to? If you answer those questions, and apply them, you will find that everything agrees.

Now, to make this real, apply it to life. Everything I see and every situation I encounter, including talking to great thinkers, I can find a place in the bible to apply and solve. It is so wonderful once you find a scripture and say, man this is right in my face.

I questioned God just as much as the next man, and I wondered if it was all a big trick, but one day everything changed and the Holy Spirit entered my life and in my soul. Prophecy, Angels, God speaking through people... Amazing. God is Amazing. Its just that people throw around the name of God and are all happy go lucky agreeing that there is a God. Fine, once you say that, agree on who God is.

The God of Islam is not the same God of Christianity.
The God of Buddists is not the same God either. etc...

Logic is mathematical in nature... to describe what I mean, I say that Logic is a way of thinking whereby conclusions are made based on premises.

These premises are also conclusions based on prior premises, and so on and so on.

That being said, breathing air is far more logical than the bible to me because the air I breathe is not man made, nor are my lungs. Just because the bible says its not man made, does not make it so.

So back to the topic....If you say we can never fathom God's intentions I don't believe we can fathom "the truth". They go hand in hand. In a way, God is truth because he/she is the end of everything... everything leads to "god".

This is why I believe we can come up with theories and beliefs (including all organized religion) that satisfy our needs to know, but the truth is, we probably don't, and never will.

And I do acknowledge your awe at the bible's scriptures... you have to remember, they have been perfected for hundreds of years. Human nature has not changed in thousands of years and so many of the values, beliefs and "tips and tricks" that you can find in the bible have been scrutinized over and over. The same goes for many religious texts, including the Bhagavad Gita and the Koran.

In fact, in any times i have browsed the bible or other texts I have found striking similarities in their values and morals.

"Hating everyone protects me from elitism."

I agree that there are many historical similarities and many values and morals in the Koran, Bible, Bhagavad Gita.

Is the age old problem with not believing the bible the matter of it being written by man?

One thing I do want to leave you with, the bible is NOT similar to any other book out there, nor is it similar to any other scripture because the word is a living word (I know u grin at my saying "living" but the word was here before the earth, Genesis.

Have you ever asked God to reveal the truth, or are you going to go through life trying to figure it out. Lets say that you are right, then we are all fine right?

Lets say you are wrong, aren't you going to burn in hell if you are not saved by the confession of the Lord Jesus as your Lord and savior?

I'd rather be on the other side of the fence, whereby I believe in Jesus being my God. If Im wrong, then I will just be in the dirt, after living a life in which I was not questioning my exisitance. I am here because God put me here to spread his word, and chill in between.

I have to end my discussion with a popular understanding between us Christians. We understand that non-believers and even some believers lacking the Holy Spirit will not understand the word of God. Its not that they are confused, it is that they don't believe.

A very very good question indeed.

Would I risk burning in hell?

And the answer is blatently "yes".

And I'll tell you why:

I believe in LOVE. I love, and love is the most powerful feeling in the world. Love is empathy. Love is understanding the object of your love, and displaying compassion towards that object because you understand them. Love is adopting that object as a part of you.

I believe God loves me. I believe if there is a force, it loves me more than I can fathom. It loves me more than I can imagine (and when I say love, please use the description I used previously)

If it loves me as infinitely as it does, it knows exactly why I choose to question "Jesus" the way I do. It knows exactly why I believe what I do. Also, it knows what things in my life (from my genes to my environment to my chemical makeup) influenced my beliefs.

Therefore, if my God, the one that loves me more than my parents ever could, would send me to hell and betray my trust in his love for me based on many factors I had no control over, I would rather burn in hell than stand by his side.

If your father judges you for molding you through the things he put you through, he has no right to be a father.

Yes, I have asked god. I have sat in silence (because I am very depressive at times) and yearned for an answer, and even in manic moments where I am filled with joy, and I have received peace in my answers.

The silence I received is my answer. It is "god" tellling me that he has given me an entire world of soul and matter to play and work with. He has given me an entire universe of moments to explore. He is telling me that he wants me to play in his playground and not worry about him, because he is always watching, and loving me.

The only factual and logical thing I know is that I have never seen god (difinitively) and I have never seen a miracle that ocurred that had NO possibility of being coincidence (like a man walking through a wall, etc). Also, I have received no external peace from my expectations that god will somehow help me.

therefore, I am here on this planet to fend for myself, and god wants it that way. Am at peace knowing that.

I don't understand what you mean by "living word"? Also, I don't know what you mean by "people who don't understand the word of God". The bible is, in its current form, definitely not the word of god because it has been translated and revised numerous times. It was also perscribed by a man, was it not? Do you really believe it contains a correct account of the "word of god" ?

"Hating everyone protects me from elitism."

Logic is mathematical in nature... to describe what I mean, I say that Logic is a way of thinking whereby conclusions are made based on premises.
Then comprehend that the Math; The universal set is the set of all things not included in the proper sets. GOD is a separate being from creation (think4yourself). His creation is the proper sets which includes our existence (life).
The God of Islam is not the same God of Christianity.
The God of Buddists is not the same God either. etc...
Oh,contrary my brother HE is but ONE GOD for HE created all things and as HE divided man (Tower of Babel), HE give each part and none have the whole but rather Each understand in part, when we come together and share then we become closer to the whole (warning: the wholeness of GOD is greater than the sum of it's parts; man is not equal to GOD)

"Terrorist or tyrant, few may come to the Truth that both are poor choice."

CTURTLE-- Please don't try and break down to me that the ONE God you speak of is being called by all the different religions. I know about the Tower of Babel.

Furthermore, praying to Mohammed and calling him for support is not calling to the Lord Jesus... So, how is that the same God?

You(turtle) seem to be saying that people indirectly pray to the same God. Jesus has different characteristics than all the other false Gods people pray to. God isn't broken down into different parts therefore somehow (like you said) coming together to understand each part sharing in the closeness of the whole.

There is no contrary to God being God alone supporting your idead with the belief that everyone ends up serving the same God. I t is just not possible. As if there is more than one way to salvation and ultimately to heaven. Jesus is the way to Heaven.

If what you are saying has an ounce of truth, then I should have pictures of Mohammed, a Shrine for Buddah, some Catholic Idols, and all the African masks of the different Gods some tribes pray to hanging in my house. And, everyone in the world is safe praying to whoever, including the Devil, which to some is a God...

The Bible even speaks of these false Gods and Idols and commands not to worship them, because OUR GOD (Father/Son/Holy Ghost) is a Jealous God. But for that dynamic fold, you must believe in the Holy Trinity, which can be proven.

If you have an open mind to finding God, read The Case for Faith, and or The Case for Christ. These books were written by an Aethiest who tested scriptures against all questions and gripes people had.

Please visit : http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-form/103-5209561-3776633

Another good link for Bible questions and Dead Sea scroll questions.

http://www.gospelcom.net/ibs/bibles/about/index.php

It just seems to be so, as this is a familar theme . . . did not the disciples come to Jesus saying that they had come upon those teaching but would not follow them? The old question , what of those who came before Jesus? What of those who never heard of Jesus after His coming? Are they doomed?
Are they not judged by Him?
What is His judgement? That according to their own judgements, they are judge? So yes there are those whom seeking the Truth, will receive His reward and just as there are thos who have gone astray, following after their own waywardness! There is one which created all, as to His form did not Paul walking in the gardens of Rome, coming upon a space with only a sign to designating this space for the Unknown God? What did he teach?
Did he say erect a statue of Jesus, for Jesus is this unknown God? Man is not GOD and when man seeks to form GOD in man's own image, he is truely expressing his desire to play GOD.
Jesus never put himself equal to GOD, He is the perfection of Man, the Christ. Seeking perfection is to be perfected, not the perfect. Which is raised up to the right hand of GOD as the perfected are raised up as brothers and sisters.
For man was made a little lower than the (spirits) angels for awhile but shall once again be raised above them?
By the way I don't pray to Mohammed nor to Jesus Christ,
I pray to GOD (although I may ask in the Name of Jesus the Christ).

"Terrorist or tyrant, few may come to the Truth that both are poor choice."
[  Edited by cturtle at   ]

http://www.gospelcom.net/ibs/bibles/about/12.php

the Dead Sea Scrolls was right there in the middle, but here is the site, check it out.

God Bless you all, I have had a great time online.

Thank You, this link did lead to the appropiate page and while I was wrong about the antiquity of the source, little has come forth to change the text of the bible.
Not to harp on a sore subject . . . Paul walking in the gardens of Rome, coming upon a space with only a sign to designating this space for the Unknown God? What did he teach?
Traditionally Jews first were given the opportunity to receive the Good News. But those whom Paul approached probably were not Jews so did he teach them the Jewish tradition, first? The aspect of what was taught is rather vague, Even is the New Testament more is written about evidence that Jesus is the Christ of the Jews (gentiles as well) so Christians tend to be more inclined to this aspect and less focused on what Jesus taught. At least this is what I have sensed in the Churches?

"Terrorist or tyrant, few may come to the Truth that both are poor choice."

Stealph, Dammit! Does this mean your through with the topic?I just got here and was getting ready to roll and you say you had a great time. I have many points to make and questions to ask. I'll be the first to say I have no clue but I am seeking. Why do you have faith I have to know? You probably already said but just sum it up for me please.

And for all those who want mathematical logic out of the Bible it is out there in spades. The Qabbalists have been doing a good job with that for centuries. Ancient Hebrew language and grammer in itself is a mathematical system.

Do you honestly not question the Bible as an infallable source though? Why not? How do you feel about the Gnostic Gospels?

"A wise man knows enough to know he knows nothing"

Mat 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

I really didnt want to continue on this website forum stuff (long story on why), but to answer the questions asked, I cant resist, as long as they arent prying questions to envoke arguments, which XsEyes, I dont think you intend to do.

After that being said, Gnostic Gospels are yet another trick of the enemy to take our eyes off of believing in the trinity. They are very deep into the ancient writings and convince people, as many other false doctorines do, to leave God and create confusion (1Cr 14:33 For God is not [the author] of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints. ). weblink for that mess:

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/gnostics.html

XsEyes, I will never question the Bible to be the infallable word of God, the only word I need, the written word of God via the Holy Spirit, which I say over and over again; one needs the Holy Ghost/Spirit to understand Gods word, without it, it will seem like jibber-jabber, garbage, or just wrong.

Why do I have faith in God/Jesus/Holy Spirit? And I have to say all three in one because when people see faith in God, they dont know what God I am honoring.... But anyway, I have faith in God because of the amazing testimony of my life, I will be glad to share anytime. If you want to keep reading, its going to be a shocker, if not, look for the next paragraph....... In the shortest words possible, my faith comes from about two instances in my life:
FIRST I had invited my father and brother to come to church with me in Atlanta. There was a visiting preacher from Arkansas who was definately annointed with God's holy annointing. After an amazing sermon, my father was walking through the traditional prayer line to the altar when the preacher stoped him and told him to throw up his hands and thank God. My dad stopped, and being a Presbyterian Churchgoer, had never experienced prophetic preachers, but obeyed the Lord (through the preacher). The preacher haulted him and touched his stomach saying he had sickness in his body (the church stood in awe). Now, the unbeliever would make up some excuse at this point, but the believer in Christ our Lord would have a strengthened faith which is why he works in miracles. The preacher eventually prayed for healing and mercy upon my dad, and my dad collapsed with joy/enlightenment. After he arose, he came to my brother and me and said he had colon cancer (the deadly cancer). I couldnt believe he chose this time to tell us, but he did. Long story short, my father was soon cured of the cancer. How? Faith in God. Now here, the non-believer would make up another worldy excuse, but there is no excuse for the work of God.
SECOND faith enhancer, prayer, I had been praying for a word from the Lord, I mean, ANY word from the lord. I had already been traveling 2 hours to church from Alabama to Atlanta, and I saw God work miracles, but I wanted to hear directly from Him. I was in Church and my Pastor called me to the front right in the middle of service. I was embarassed, but I walked down the aisle and stood. He prophesized to me about my future and said God showed him a glimpse of it and he was blown away. He told me to stay in the will of God throughout all the trubulations and questions I would face. He told me that the blessings I would have in my life will be overflowing, and God will use me to deliver people and more. I was DONE, my search was OVER, because the burning rush inside my body took me and my legs collapsed, and I was face down on the floor crying out to Jesus in thanks. NOW, I had seen other people do this and laughed, or thought they were faking... God revealed himself to me personally because I had asked and I was openly seeking the truth.

God is so amazing until you see him working in every aspect of life. He is so real, so personal, and so merciful, even to unbelievers. When you want to seek the Lord, and you put away your ego, or your human mind that is always trying to figure out (how does this function) God will overshadow all logic, and surpass all intellect, because he created Logic, he CREATED physics, and everything.

I dont claim to know everything, but I know God knows everything, and I know he can SAVE unbelievers, he can SAVE devil worshippers, and anyone who seeks his face.

Mat 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.