The end of the universe

The end of the universe [+ favourites]

I just wanted to know your opinions on a point that I have argued with friends for years.
My point is that there must be an end to Space and everything because I just can't see and can't accept that it just goes on forever. My reasoning is that all things come to an end. Although to put a point against my arguement my friends said 'Where is the end of the world'. The world has no particular end, yet we know that there are set boundaries. So, I just don't know. Please shed some light on this for me.

"Live by the sword die by the sword"

One theory I have is that the universe is round like earth and you can never reach the end of it because it just goes around and around just like you cant walk to the end of the earth.

Another idea is that the universe is just tracking onto itself if you go to far in one direction you’ll end up ware you started.

A third idea I have and this one is my favorite, is that the universe is just a grain of salt in a soup of “things” ßcant find a word for that LoL.
It’s the same as a atom, we thought it was the smallest thing, then we found things in the atom we thought that’s as small as it goes, now we have found smaller things inside the electron of an atom. So what’s to say that owe galaxy and universe is not the size of an atom to some other being. Cool eh

"Emotions are for the weak minded, so cry me a river build a bridge and get over it."

I agree with your third comment shadow, but if our universe is just a marble in the hand of a person from another universe then whats outside of that and does that end and so on.
Or is space simply infinite and has no boundaries. Because if you think about it, if there is a boundary to space then whats outside the boundary? 'Nothing'?
But then isnt space 'nothing'.

"Live by the sword die by the sword"

sometimes i think it must end somewhere, but say the universe is a circle then whats outside that circle? and whats outside that? and that? and that? arghhhhhhh

""i'm not here...this isn't happenin"

there is no outside. selfcontained.

"Emotions are for the weak minded, so cry me a river build a bridge and get over it."

there's a scientific theory that explains the end of space with a wormhole, all the content of our space will be sucked by that wormhole and transfered to the parallel space. It's just like sand clock.

There's also a theory that explains what's outside of our space: outside of spce is called super space where theres no exact time or the time is "all times together". theres no mass or mass is undefinable.

Most likely the outside of the universe, the laws and dimensions are so different that, owe small minds wouldn’t be able to understand, and that’s y we cant figure it out.

"Emotions are for the weak minded, so cry me a river build a bridge and get over it."

I would like to point out that a widley held belief states that th universe exsists in the forth dimension, our minds only work in 3-d therefore it is almost impossible to comprehend, yet try to invision the universe folding in on itself constently i motion and our common conceptions about boundries don't apply.

"I like maxims that don't encourage behaviour modification"

Hi, all ideas seem to be interesting and good point of views of the same thing. But, have you ever thought this could be a proof of god’s existence? Who's the one outside carrying the awesome universe?

"Everyone's got his own ilusion"

Maybe our universe is just one of many, like our solar system or galaxy. Of course then there is the question: "When does the uhh...super-universe which contains all universes end?" Perhaps someday we will find the secret to what lies beyond the universe, if anything, but I'm afraid we won't be alive to witness this discovery. Sorry!

"Democracy consists of choosing your dictators, after they've told you what you think it is you want to hear."
[  Edited by Danipog at   ]

Well,
until then, there's nothing else left for us to do than to think about that question. If we state that this universe we live in is just a part of another, we must not ignore the fact that we could also be upon another not-known universe. This is becoming a movie fantastic thing ( remember Man in Black).
And this not-known universe ( an ant head for instance) should be important enough to deserve the existence under ours. I mean, a universe, with knowledge: religion, science etc., like this one, had to be inside some of a similar importance or had to keep some of a similar importance. Otherwise, an ant hole could be considered one of our many inner universes. And this doesn't explain anything.
Sorry for my poor english, I'm brazilian.

"Everyone's got his own ilusion"

Ah, I must thank the thread starter for creating such a controversial and interesting debate.

It was said once by Emerson, (roughly, don't hold me word for word) ''that it is the human desire to draw a new circle.'' The fact that people cannot FATHOM the idea of no beginning or end proves what Emerson was saying. A Circle is the closest relevant example we have to compare to something of the magnitude of the universe. Basically, it is thought that the universe never begins or ends. Any sane person could disagree with this and come off as perfectly logical. Yet it certainly could be TRUE, since we have yet to explore the full lengths of the universe, if there is such a thing.

Something that may relate to this is the idea that there is a Creator, and he granted us the ability to question a select few things we are not capable of answering with our own logic. It is impossible to fathom eternity. The Creator COULD NOT have been around for eternity is what logic will tell you, but many different people believe otherwise. I guess it is just a matter of accepting eternity and/or the idea of a never-ending universe, or not accepting it and believing it does have a start and an end.

But consider one thing, how can something be created from nothing? Such is with the Big Bang, but that's almost preaching about religion.

"He who refuses to seek will never learn"

Well, I would argue that the Big Bang is NOT "something from nothing".
Two laws of physics sort of sum up the whole debate for me, generally speaking:
1. An object in motion tends to stay in motion;
2. Energy is neither created nor destroyed, it only changes form.

As mere humans, yet another changeling in the vast "scheme of things" as applicable to our little corner of the Universe here, we have the arrogance born of fear. We feel that we MUST know and understand, explain and thereby control or at least predict, our world, in its entirety.
This is, IMO, the ground work for both logic and religion, and more often than not, if looked at with a rational eye, do not necessarily cancel each other out, fundamentally. Its when we get to the area of "CONTROL" and "PREDICT" that we start to get really, REALLY stupid.
Humans cannot accept an end of themselves, either as individuals or as a race. We insist on a certain Divinity in ourselves, and need to believe that we are somehow "special" or "protected" from the little bit that we know of the Universe. We may indeed be "unique", but "special"...??? I am not so sure about that.
If our laws of physics are accurate (and who can tell beyond our own relatively limited knowledge?) then there is indeed and "END" as we percieve it, but no END in fact. Only change.

matter itself can neither be created nor destroyed, according to the laws of physics. i agree with Gemini that the answer is something that our minds are simply incapable of understanding. it is just something that we accept. some people do not like mysteries and have to find some way to explain things and if they don't, they fabricate a reason. religion. i believe that space is just that, space. a vast, never-ending field of nothingness. what makes it endless? some believe that it is donut-shaped, so when you follow it, you're right back where you started, like someone already pointed out. it's a lot like the Möbius strip if you've ever seen one. but then the question still remains: if that donut is nothing, what is beyond that? what contains it? those who cannot grasp it turn to religion. well, it must be the hands of god. then to those, i ask--how is it, then, that god exists?

"ablahblahblah."

A few things about the notion of folding space from a physics nut. To the best of my knowledge, the idea of space bending in any way comes from General Relativity, and the main (natural) mechanism for distorting space is gravity. In theory, the universe may fold in on itself and make a 4-dimensional sphere, however experiments don't reveal any curvature. It may be that we can't see far enough yet, but I personally believe there universe simply does not end. It may also be that the 'fabric' of space is finite, but will expand if matter reaches the 'boundary'.


To those asking what's outside the sphere, the usual answer is that there is nothing. Not nothing as in empty space -- nothing as in no matter, no space, no time, no existence. You are refering to something that simply isn't there. The reason this is a popular answer is that spheres and donuts help visualize curved higher dimensional objects, but all other qualities (color, taste, being contained in even more dimensions) are not necessarily applicable to what they help you see. The donut helps you visualize curved space, but space itself is not actually a donut, whose 2d surface exists inside a 3d world.

Think about this: the universe may be 3-dimensional, cubic, with no distortions (the 3d infinite object analogous to a plane -- exactly what most people think our 3d universe is). No one has much of a problem understanding conceptually that this is all there is to it, and there are no extra dimensions that contain such a universe. Well, if it were a plane, it would be 2 dimensional, infinite, and still may (conceptually) not be contained in more than 2-dimensions. When people talk about the universe being like a donut or sphere, they're talking about the SURFACE only, thus it is a curved 2d object. Such an object does not need 3 dimensions to exist -- just bend a 2d plane around until its inner geometry changes to that of a sphere (ex: angles of triangles no longer have to add to 180 degrees. Also, if you go in any direction long enough you return to where you started). Similarly the 3d cubic universe may be distorted so that our usual geometric view of it no longer holds, and it may wrap around and actually be finite in volume, however there does not need to be a 4th dimension for all this to happen.

That being said, we have no more reason to ponder what's outside of the higher dimensional spherical universe than we do what's outside of our normal 3d cubic universe. The question arises because we're never trapped in the surface of a sphere. We always look at it from the outside, thus we falsely assume the outside is a necessary property of spheres and other curved objects.

[  Edited by think4yourself at   ]