All These F***ing Jews

*gasps* did you hear that!!! your on his list!!! ooooooo

I honestly do not understand your objections. Most Jews today practice Reform Judaism, which is vastly different from the Orthodox variety upon which much of the world's antisemitism is based. Personally, I feel it is not without justification, knowing what I do of Orthodox Judaism, but the same concerns do not universally apply within Reform Judaism. Do you disagree?

I think I understand what I'm doing wrong here. I'm not being clear and concise. You want my argument stated in logical terms, and are not interested in friendly discussion.

OK, you say a Jew is, by definition, an "elitist racist bastard," and you base this conclusion on the beliefs of Judaism. Had you said "Orthodox Jews," your conclusion would be logically sound. Reform Judaism exists largely due to the fact that many Jews recognize the same flaws in traditional Judaism that you and I do.

Orthodox Judaism requires adherents to rely on Rabbinical interpretation, much of which is indeed both "elitist" and "racist." Reform Judaism, on the other hand, allows adherents to interpret the Torah as they see fit.

So, you can not assume all practicing Jews are "elitist, racist bastards." Many Jews reject Orthodox Judaism simply because they are not, and disagree with racist interpretations of the Torah.

I hope I have been sufficiently clear.

How does one uninterpret "racism" ( actually extreme prejudice) from a text declaring a certain group of people as the chosen people of god?

Why don't they instead, as well as other religions, just fess up dump their shameless shams of religions all together and just come together as human beings practicing the universal laws of standard behaviors?

Orthodox or not, if they make baseless claims of a chosen "belief" in one reality over others instead of just admitting ignorance to the mysteries of the universe and actually working towards discovering them, then they are still segregating themselves from others.

A form of elitism destructive to the need of cohesion in society.

We're either all just people living under the same forces of nature (god/gods) or we're lying to ourselves and others, and I certainly can't respect the latter, can you?

Not "uninterpret," but interpret differently. It is not easy to explain...Many reform Jews are free thinkers, and they do not follow a single line as in traditional Judaism. Their religion is more personal, less rigid. Many are skeptical regarding the Torah. They do not necessarily view it as "the word of God" in the way Christians do. I know Jews who could explain it much better than I, but perhaps a condemnation from an Orthodox Jew will help. The following is an excerpt from: http://samsonblinded.org/blog/honesty-cannot-be-reformed.htm

"Judaism is isolationist: Jews are “the people who dwell alone.” Nehemiah ordered the Jews to send away their foreign wives, breaking just every family in Jerusalem. We accepted converts in the numbers small enough that we can assimilate them; Nehemiah saw that the foreign wives are too numerous for safe assimilation and ordered them all evicted. And we accept converts on our terms: one does not become a Jew by thinking that he is one. Judaism believes in being the only truth around, in Jews being the only chosen people. In the framework of Judaism, any other faith is not just inferior, but abominable. We don’t hate other peoples but we despise their faiths. And in our prayers we thank God for not having been born into a foreign religion. What could be farther from the reformist interfaith, intermarriage, cultural interchange, and eventually assimilation?

How many people in the average reformist temple believe in God? None, including their lesbian rabbi. The enlightened audience cannot believe in the God who created the Earth and listens to our prayers. Liberal Jews cannot stand the concept of their own chosenness. Jews with analytical minds refuse to believe that God spoke to us at the Mount Sinai and gave us every commandment. Even if they had believed in God’s existence, that would be of no practical consequence to them. If the Torah is not of divine origin, what should we make out of God’s existence? What laws should we follow? Reformists, therefore, fall into the comfortable position that they follow those commandments which fit their panhuman conscience. Here comes a vicious circle: they test the religion against the ethics, and consequently their religion is always narrower than even their ethics. And their “Judaism” is indistinguishable from ethical maxims of a well-mannered Swede."

“Who is wise? One who learns from every person.”
~~~~ Ben Zoma ~~~~ (A Jew)

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Not "uninterpret," but interpret differently.

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A poor game of semantics.

But the point is nonsense. I can't interpret a gun into a flower just because I say so, its still a gun and I'm just lyin to myself.

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It is not easy to explain...

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That is because it is nonsense attempting to be rationalized.

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Many reform Jews are free thinkers, and they do not follow a single line as in traditional Judaism.

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Then they are no longer Jews, period.

The rest is malarky because they are just being pussies and won't denounce a bullshit religion and be themselves.

I guess they just want labels, have to be known as some elitist group, absolutely pathetic.

This mentality destroys their and our chances of us all coming together as human beings free of such tyrannically elitist hypocricy.

Iron, it would not be impossible to explain, but I was attempting to avoid writing a book here. Reform Jews are indeed still Jews, but they simply do not fit the mold that makes the world take exception to traditional Judaism. I don't suppose it would matter to you, since I believe you are one of those who believe all religion is "bad." I do not believe there is any point in any further attempt to explain this to you.

I have explained my argument so that a child could understand it. Verification is another matter, but anyone who does not understand the differences between Reform Judaism and Orthodox Judaism can do the research, just as I have. Those who wish to remain willfully ignorant are, of course, free to do so, and I do not believe anything will be accomplished by any further attempts to explain this to you.

Sir, you are an idiot and likely a coward, and your stupidity is a stain upon humanity.

The rest of my comment will have to come later.

Owned.

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Reform Jews are indeed still Jews, but they simply do not fit the mold that makes the world take exception to traditional Judaism.

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If you stop following "traditional" Judaism, you aren't a Jew, even if you tell yourself you are.

And if you see a problem with a religion, yet you follow it anyway, attempting to adjust the title with reforms to selective practices, then not only are you not of that religion, you are also a pathetic asshat wannabe of biblical proportions, hopelessly dependant upon titles, dogmas, social hierarchies, superstitions etc.

In other words, dependant upon most of the things wrong with organized religion to begin with, you half-wit.

If they really wanted to be reformists they wouldn't still be calling themselves Jews, Christians or any of it.

The universal laws found within all religions are independant of them, and to properly follow them, so must we be.

Because you can't selectively follow a universal law, and you can't follow a universal law better than someone else, and a universal law doesn't require selected individuals or groups to teach or follow them, though this mentality you espouse does challenge the latter.

Explained so even a child could understand, though it would take more than a pussy and a sheep to truly grasp or implement such "radical" ideas.

Wow, doesn't even require writing a book to explain it.

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but anyone who does not understand the differences between Reform Judaism and Orthodox Judaism can do the research, just as I have.

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Time well spent I'm sure.

On that which is important, yes?

A whole page dedicated to proving the simplistic idea that one that does not practice the tenets of a given system is no longer a part of the group that does. Hence, reformed Jews are Jews by self-appointed name only, and are not Jews at all. The discussion is wasted on this foolishness, trying to defend Judaism by literally saying "not all Jews are elitists... The Jews that don't actually practice Judaism are not elitist."

Well, that wouldn't make them Jews then, would it?

And to that I say, Amen.

Alright i did my reasearch this time i talked to a man i met about this post who is a philopher (collage n the hole shit) and is really obsessed with relgion. But before that umm in all repect dercius you complained about manegorus using simple techniques to discredit a argument and ironwood is just calling him names that has nothing to do with this discusion? is only ok when they agree with you? ok heres what he told me(the guy only in better words) said that every relgion has it flaws that jew's by nature beleave in a isolistic life style that does not mix well a goverment that doesn't support it. On the same key he said that if one were to look at a country such as Isreal that follows true jewish beliefs and is a democracy it works perfectly and then procided to point out that a sepperation of church and state creates tension no matter what relgion you belong to because all relgions follow there own guildlines different from the way there goverement is run. That sense everyone is allowed to practice what ever relgion freely in a democracy like america's that no one group can be blamed for such a attitude. In theory all singling out jew's is, is a attempt nothing short of prejudice that one can justify by using there own spirtiual beliefs and so unless you are a converited worshiper of the consutution then one's agurement could not hold weight. This is not to say one shouldn't pratice relgion but that one must not single another when the mirrior can point both ways.

Ironwood is not just calling him names. Pay attention - go ask your philosopher friend about that too.

College doesn't make someone a philosopher. I can see why you may think so, but it is a well-distributed lie. Providing that as a credential actually discredits his response because more likely than not he fancies himself smart and will therefore provide a response that has at its base premises lots of fancy names who said it before him.

It is okay when they agree with me AND they are right. Them agreeing with me is a correlation to them being right, and a common one at that.

Every religion having their flaws is not a defense to them being singled out for specific flaws, nor does it state the extent to which different religions are flawed.

My critique of Judaism is based on science, not "beliefs". I do not criticize Judaism because a piece of tissue paper I found told me to. Comparing my critique of Judaism to Judaism's critique of me is nonsensical - Jews believe God wrote it. I believe in math, science, and logic.

Finally, the mirror pointing both ways is not only welcommed, it is encouraged. Only those that seek to enlighten themselves truly appreciate criticism. Your philosopher friend isn't very philosophical if he is telling you it is wrong to analyze and criticize theologies - that is the essence of the science of theology.

I'm not sure why I wrote all that. You're obviously not going to get it. I hope someone does.

Anyways, I'm smarter than your philosopher friend. Learn from me, not him.

haha decius. i understand what your saying. a philosopher is some one who thinks for himself. the idea that "philosophy" can be taught in a class is completely contradictory to the idea of philosophy. now im sure some one could sinuously weave their way through a fancy monologue telling me how im wrong but i dont care. and yes i understand the original schools were schools of philosophy, but that still doesnt make one a philosopher.