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"The mark of an immature man is that he wants to die nobly for a cause, while the mark of the mature man is that he wants to live humbly for one." - Wilhelm Stekel

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excessive much?

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757 Posts / 41M

19yrs

MugenNoKarayami

quote:
If you didn't want something to happen, would you idly stand by and wait for someone to do it and then tell them you didn't want them to do that? Or would you tell them before it even happens?

Where I was getting at with this is that if you already know the outcome of something, and warn someone not to do it, wouldn't that imply that you've experienced it and it would seem natural for that person to believe you?

here's a parallel that seems to fit along with this story: you have a metal case with a flame inside. you already know is scolding hot because you've touched it before and got burned. [that right there would be the entire "beginning to end" experience] Not wanting that same thing to happen to someone who has never touched the metal, because it looks harmless at first glance, you warn them to not touch the hot metal because you already know what's going to happen. [God told adam and eve not to eat the fruit of the tree of knowledge. they would have been oblivious and unprepared if they had eaten the fruit and God didn't tell them]

"I'm a human being, God Dammit!! My life has value!!!"

17 Posts / 13M

29yrs

Ryuzaki

I hate to be harsh but, you seem to be confused Mugen.

How can something that encompasses everything be off-balance? If it takes up all space, time, thought, and mass... then it already is balanced. I don't know where you are missing that, because you aren't even properly refuting it, you are almost ignoring my point. I'd prefer us stick to the basis of this theory before hypothesizing any further on it.

As for teaching Adam and Eve, it would be far more logical for God to simply create humans without any interest in fruit or fallibility. From what I gather we are discussing, God would be setting mankind up to fall.
God designed man. God knew what would happen before he did it. Therefore, it would be on God's hands for creating a creature that could be tempted.
And it hardly seems good or just, as God is said to be, for the father's sins to be cast to his sons.

"Experience of personal reality verifies existence."

757 Posts / 41M

19yrs

MugenNoKarayami

quote:
How can something that encompasses everything be off-balance? If it takes up all space, time, thought, and mass... then it already is balanced.

^__^:: yess, I do understand what you're trying to say now. my apologies. I misread a part in your quote I had. What you said made perfect sense to me now.

quote:
As for teaching Adam and Eve, it would be far more logical for God to simply create humans without any interest in fruit or fallibility. From what I gather we are discussing, God would be setting mankind up to fall.

I think what I'm not understanding here is do you believe that God should have not created a way for humans to sin? My thoughts on this for now would be that God wanted to have both options for mankind to determine his/or her experience rather than having it seem like we have no 'free will', because we would already know what choice to make.. to me, from what I have experienced already, that would be very boring I guess you could say; Leaving the decision up to his creation, but warning them of their actions. I'm sorry if I'm still confused, I'm catching up with you though... slowly, but surely ^_^::

"I'm a human being, God Dammit!! My life has value!!!"

17 Posts / 13M

29yrs

Ryuzaki

What you said made perfect sense to me now.

And you agree or do you have anything on that note you wish to dispute or discuss? If you believe I am wrong that is fine, as long as you support it.

do you believe that God should have not created a way for humans to sin?

Assuming God has ultimate control and knowledge, then anything that happens is caused by him. I see no reason to send group A to heaven for having a better hand than group B, who all go to hell.

You may be interested in looking up Zimbardo's Prison Study.

http://www.dushkin.com/connectext/psy/ch15/zimbard.mhtml

Simply by changing the roles of two different groups of students, one group becomes abusive and another submissive. The study was to go on for a two weeks but never made it passed the first.

What I believe this implies is that God doesn't exist as we are told he does. He would either be something closer to the devil, by tricking us into thinking we have free will and punishing us... or he doesn't exist, either at all or as an all powerful being.

"Experience of personal reality verifies existence."

excessive much?


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