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Humility

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2827 Posts / 91M

28yrs

Decius

Humility [+ favourites]

quote:
Humility is a quality or characteristic ascribed to a person who is considered to be humble. A humble person is generally thought to be unpretentious and modest: someone who does not think that he or she is better or more important than others. The concept of humility in various religions is often much more precise and extensive. Humility is not to be confused with humiliation, which is the act of making someone else feel ashamed, and is something completely different. Humble is synonymous with teachable.

If asked, so many people will state that they consider themselves humble. They consider themselves nice, or easy going. They consider themselves passive or naive. They consider themselves non-threatening or positive. They consider themselves optimists and loving.

But none of that is humble. It does not exclude or oppose humility, but it is not humility. Humility is synonymous with the ability to learn - open-mindedness. It's accepting that someone else may teach you something that will take precedence over a previous lesson.

Very few people in the world are humble. Very few people willing to learn. It is because people are afraid of being perceived as weak. There are books in the bookstore teaching both men and women of all ages to "appear" strong.

Humility is of the utmost importance to me. It is the most dignified trait. It's the Godly trait. True humility is, to me, the only link to a spiritual plane.

Humility is not synonymous with weakness - Jesus and Buddha were humble, but not weak. They were humble, and intelligent. They were humble, and strong. In fact, it is their humility that made them so wondrous to us - that they were able to maintain such a high sense of humility throughout their entire lives.

My goal is to promote humility on this site, and to use that humility to promote the sharing of information to decipher truths. Anything opposing this endeavor is, and always will be, unwelcome.

"Hating everyone protects me from elitism."

AUTHOR

32 Posts / 50M

26yrs

Dawn

I admit to myself that I am not right now, nor for a large part of my adult life been, a humble person. I have thought myself to be better than other people, have tried to convince myself that I am a ‘special’ person, unlike others. Such thoughts ultimately mean that I think myself to be superior to those other than myself.

Such thoughts were provoked by parts of me to compensate for feeling like and being conditioned to feel like a ‘nobody’. I wanted to believe that I was special to compensate for my internal feelings of insignificance and subordinancy.

Yet the crux of such thoughts is that they ultimately drive me away from what I believe is part of my purpose and reason for being in this world: to explore and learn as much as I can, to become as spiritual as I can. I need to redefine my thoughts in accordance to this truth. There is absolutely no getting anywhere, no progression, when one thinks themselves to be better than another. No advancement, simply more confusion in trying to decipher one's place in the world.

I have to re-learn humility.

"My time passing.."

281 Posts / 20M

52yrs

Chiron

quote:
Humility is synonymous with the ability to learn - open-mindedness. It's accepting that someone else may teach you something that will take precedence over a previous lesson. Very few people in the world are humble. Very few people willing to learn. It is because people are afraid of being perceived as weak. There are books in the bookstore teaching both men and women of all ages to "appear" strong. Humility is of the utmost importance to me.

Yes, I would agree with all of this. Even and most particularly with the following statement:

quote:
It is the most dignified trait. It's the Godly trait. True humility is, to me, the only link to a spiritual plane.

I would also link humility to a state of extreme vulnerability in humans of all ages but I would think most particularly the young.

And I believe all people innately seek this quality, instinctively knowing that it contains the only true reward which life can offer: growth.

No living thing prefers to remain stunted but does so in response to fear of humiliation. And perhaps we commit a heinous crime when we incite the egos defenses in another, rather than stimulate that seed which lies beneath its surface.

This stimulation can only come in the shape of love, tolerance and finally humility.

I suspect Arrogance (and its desire to belittle another) is the enemy of Humility. The two cannot co-exist. I own up to both these qualities at different points of my life and have found that the only real antidote is Love. I think the ability to genuinely love whatever you can in another (there is always something if you really take a good look) is the only possible path to Humility.

1677 Posts / 37M

20yrs

awakendwraith

http://www.captaincynic.com/thread/62491/lessons-in-humility.htm#62688

Back in my more jackass days. This was a good tool for me. While I made this thread the intention was to "show those" whoe thought they were smarter than me. About half way through my first post though I did honestly want to know what was wrong with me. This is just a good outline for humility I think.

"Wht cry for those that often cry? Instead, help them smile, and smile for those that smile."
[ Edited by Wyote at ]

SITE ADMIN

2827 Posts / 91M

28yrs

Decius

quote:
I would also link humility to a state of extreme vulnerability

This is a false assumption, and in fact why people view humility as a threatening and dangerous state. You can be absolutely open minded and absorbent without being vulnerable. The key is using your intelligence to filter biased and missleading information. Vulnerability is not humility, and those that succeed in being humble throughout their lives are likely less vulnerable than those that are not, because they have successfully learnt to cope with an aggressive world.

Those that lose or repress their humility have not coped with the outside world and are actually more vulnerable. This is described by their fear of being humble.

"Hating everyone protects me from elitism."

281 Posts / 20M

52yrs

Chiron

quote:
You can be absolutely open minded and absorbent without being vulnerable. The key is using your intelligence to filter biased and missleading information

And for most people other than possibly Christ or Buddha, this might be where the ego steps in. By reassuring itself that its own superior intelligence will select only that information it deems worthy, it shields itself from vulnerability by wearing arrogance as a justifiable defence.

ADMINISTRATOR

2926 Posts / 59M

24yrs

Wyote

I don't believe today's societies offer enough opportunities for people to learn humility. If the concept of humility is not focused on at an early age, it is generally not a valued trait in an individuals subconcious. In the US in particular children are so caught up in material things and how to obtain them that as they grow, humility is viewed as an obsticle simply getting in the way of allowing them to aquire materials they so desperately crave.

This is why humility becomes linked to vulnerability. Material possessions make a person "powerful" in people's eyes, and power is addictive. This is also a misconception however, as true power is gained through knowledge and wisdom. Even so, power is irrelevent to this discussion.

Truths are obtained much more readily when all parties are willing and able to have humility.

"I am Akba-Atatdia"

281 Posts / 20M

52yrs

Chiron

I am not sure that power is irrelevant to this discussion Wyote, and agree with the idea that real power arises from a state of humility.

Even by recognizing that material possessions do make a person more powerful at a basic level this isn't the real power of which we speak now which is completely impervious to material wealth.

I suspect that power which comes from knowledge and wisdom may be similar to that which comes from material wealth. Perhaps real power comes from true humility in spite of the accompanying knowledge and wisdom which may well be unrecognized by others.

I have always thought of humility as an act of conscious awareness, but now you have me wondering whether it is also

quote:
a valued trait in an individuals subconscious.

I'm not sure I understand and hoped you might explain further?

quote:
Truths are obtained much more readily when all parties are willing and able to have humility

I wholeheartedly agree with this though...

SITE ADMIN

2827 Posts / 91M

28yrs

Decius

quote:
superior intelligence

Not at all. You should observe Chomski debates. He doesn't wear ego at all. He wears logic and information, and very cleanly shuts the door on illogical statements. If the other person is offended by that, it is a demonstration of their own insecurities, not the other person's ego.

To claim that someone who knows how to filter information is "egocentric" is absolutely ridiculous. You seem to have completely missed the point of humility - the belief that you can learn from anyone and anything - pretty much the opposite of declaring you have a "superior" intelligence.

quote:
most people other than possibly Christ or Buddha

Ridiculous, pessimistic, and a complete opinion void of fact. Anyone can do this with the right guidelines. If you find it difficult, that doesn't mean it's hard for everyone. I think playing the guitar is impossible, but I still contain the belief that some people are very good at it.

"Hating everyone protects me from elitism."

ADMINISTRATOR

2926 Posts / 59M

24yrs

Wyote

What I mean is, there are people who behave in a naturally humble manner due to their sense of humility that has been taught to them at an early age. In today's societies these people struggle much more than those who behave in a naturally overbearing way and so it seems that it is "easier" and "better" to teach children to be overbearing. But as we know, easier does not necessarily mean better.

"I am Akba-Atatdia"

281 Posts / 20M

52yrs

Chiron

Thank you Wyote, I see what you mean now...

Decius. The fact that Chomsky knows how to do this is not being debated. And as you stated..

quote:
Very few people in the world are humble

All that citing Chomsky does is suggest that all this is indeed possible which no one is refuting.

Furthermore you are implying that I have claimed that someone who knows how to filter information is being "egocentric". Please re-read the following:

quote:
this might be where the ego steps in. By reassuring itself that its own superior intelligence will select only that information it deems worthy, it shields itself from vulnerability by wearing arrogance as a justifiable defence

and tell me if you think the Ego is not likely to deem its own intelligence as superior? or to shield itself from vulnerability using arrogance? Bearing in mind that you have surmised that most people do not do as Chomsky does...

quote:
If you find it difficult, that doesn't mean it's hard for everyone.

Please try not to draw premature conclusions as to what I may or may not find difficult Decius. This is after all a debate not a contest. And to suggest that I am being 'ridiculous' and 'pessimistic' when you began this thread by declaring that most people are not humble is contradictory.

SITE ADMIN

2827 Posts / 91M

28yrs

Decius

quote:
Furthermore you are implying that I have claimed that someone who knows how to filter information is being "egocentric".

Yes. And you re-supported your notion in the next sentence.

quote:
you think the Ego is not likely to deem its own intelligence as superior? or to shield itself from vulnerability using arrogance?

quote:
And to suggest that I am being 'ridiculous' and 'pessimistic' when you began this thread by declaring that most people are not humble is contradictory

Not at all. It is a critique. You're the one comparing yourself to me. I never made any claims about my level of humility at all. The fact that you think I am engaging in a contest with you is indicative of the very ego you seem to sure "intelligent" people seem to have - when criticized, when critiqued, when suggested to learn and change one's behaviour, the reaction is malice and insult, not open mindedness.

Therefore, you are the one who is not being humble, not me. It's a good demonstration. In even discussing humility with you we are proving that even people who think they are humble and criticize others for not being humble are often not humble themselves, and is displayed by their closed-minded behaviour.

In actuality, my critique of you finding it difficult is absolutely true - you attempted to state that I myself am not humble when criticized. Throwing aggression out when being critiqued is the first sign of a lack of humility.

"Hating everyone protects me from elitism."

281 Posts / 20M

52yrs

Chiron

Decuis, don’t you see that your critique of me (being ‘ridiculous’ and ‘pessimistic’) serves in turn to contradict and critique yourself, seeing as you started off with a dubious appraisal of people in general?

quote:
Very few people in the world are humble. Very few people willing to learn. It is because people are afraid of being perceived as weak. There are books in the bookstore teaching both men and women of all ages to "appear"
strong.

quote:
And for most people other than possibly Christ or Buddha, this might be where the ego steps in

Tell me how you perceive this to be so fundamentally different in that ‘most people’ (other than examples like Christ and Buddha) are lacking in humility and resort to egoism instead?

Is this being pessimistic? ridiculous?

quote:
You're the one comparing yourself to me.

I most certainly am not! And it is a conceit of the Ego even to suggest this.

quote:
- you attempted to state that I myself am not humble when criticized.

Thus you reveal the source of your hostility. You have wrongly assumed that my reply was solely directed at you (how egocentric!) to which I can only respond by saying ‘If the cap fits…’

My opinion of whether or not you show humility is irrelevant to this discussion. I will keep these opinions to myself and would likewise request that you ‘filter’ out any opinions which you have (as well as the assumptions that you make) about me.

quote:
Throwing aggression out when being critiqued is the first sign of a lack of humility.

And I most certainly agree, yet I fail to see how you think I have responded by ‘throwing aggression out…’
Perhaps you are just personally identifying with such a response?
If so, please show the humility of recognizing this without attempting to project this onto me.

quote:
Humility is not synonymous with weakness

It appears that you are confusing vulnerability with weakness, which is a macho phobia. Being vulnerable is contrary to weakness and in fact requires great personal courage and strength.

Decuis you declare that Humility is of the utmost importance to you, that your goal is promote it on this site…

Will you lead by example?

SITE ADMIN

2827 Posts / 91M

28yrs

Decius

First of all, do not liken my statements of "most people" to your statement of "Buddha or Christ". This is incorrect logic. Your statement carries with it numerous suggestions and traits that are certainly far more restrictive and pessimistic than "most people".

Yes, it is being pessimistic. Be humble, and hear my words the first time I say them. Go re-read it if you couldn't catch it the first time.

quote:
Thus you reveal the source of your hostility. You have wrongly assumed that my reply was solely directed at you (how egocentric!) to which I can only respond by saying ‘If the cap fits…’

Nice try. My statement was absolutely geared at critiquing your defense mechanisms, and pointing out that your response to being criticised is aggression. I did not defend myself. Again, re-read my post if you missed it the first time.

quote:
I will keep these opinions to myself and would likewise request that you ‘filter’ out any opinions which you have (as well as the assumptions that you make) about me.

You'd love that, but it's not happening. My "assumptions" have been proven, and you continue to certify them. It is truth, and since this site is about truth, it surely is helpful for people who read your words to know you speak from a biased need to defend yourself, and therefore cannot be trusted.

quote:
et I fail to see how you think I have responded by ‘throwing aggression out…’

That's because you don't want to see.

quote:
It appears that you are confusing vulnerability with weakness, which is a macho phobia. Being vulnerable is contrary to weakness and in fact requires great personal courage and strength.

Not true. Although vulnerability is not weakness, it certainly (in the general sense that you used the word) lends the idea that one is able to be hurt or betrayed by someone else. This is vulnerability. My use of the word weakness may be slightly missleading but fulfills the point I was trying to make. I did not make a social commentary in doing so.

quote:
Will you lead by example?

Most certainly. But Chiron, your incessantly illogical, internally garbled attacks on my criticisms of you will not, in any way, convince me that I am not being humble. Your confused attempts to misrepresent my words and attack my supposed lack of humility to sustain the dillusion that you are open minded is absolutely contradictory. I am certainly willing to learn from you. It's a pity you're unable to show others the same respect.

I am glad this discussion is taking place. It is providing a very clear example of how information can be distorted in order to facilitate dillusion, and in this case, the dillusion that my critique of you is wrong. You have used one primary method of information distortion, and that's the "burying of unsubstantiated facts" - communicating a point with false premises behind it, confusing the listener from connecting the dots, making it seem that you know something they don't. It's a form of intimidation.

(Side note - in case you were wondering, Chiron, the clear indication that you are being aggressive, closed minded, and defensive is apparent in your critiques of me - your critiques are focussed and limited to stopping me from criticising you. You're not addressing other things about me that do not affect you - indicating that your purpose is to make me stop criticising you, not to actually help me become a better person.)

"Hating everyone protects me from elitism."
[ Edited by Decius at ]

281 Posts / 20M

52yrs

Chiron

Decius, I will not indulge in such arrogance that tries to ‘make you a better person’. You are the person you are for better or worse. I am not here to teach or attempt to change others, that seems to be your hobby.

You speak continuously of aggression. Most particularly a perceived aggression towards yourself. I suggest that you are merely looking in the mirror and calling that which you see in yourself, mine. lol

An irony being that it was you who suggested I was comparing myself to you. Where exactly do you think I am doing this?
Do you see how you tend to sway everything so that it becomes all about you?

quote:
- in case you were wondering, Chiron, the clear indication that you are being aggressive, closed minded, and defensive is apparent in your critiques of me.

And I challenge you Decius, to provide the clear indication of exactly where you see that I am being aggressive, close minded and defensive. Add to that list precisely what critiques you think I am making of you, and why you think these do or do not apply.

quote:
- your critiques are focussed and limited to stopping me from criticising you.

My ‘critiques’ as you call them, are most certainly not focused on you (more egocentricity). I have merely drawn attention to the role of the Ego and its use of arrogance as a defense. You on the other hand have independently identified with this and are responding as if you were being ‘attacked’.

quote:
Although vulnerability is not weakness, it certainly lends the idea that one is able to be hurt or betrayed by someone

And although you are unlikely to believe me (and I remain indifferent to this) I nevertheless have no intention to hurt you or anyone else on this site. Neither do I wish to belittle, betray, or demean…as none of this brings me any joy. And regardless of what you may think of me Decius, I am after Love and Joy.

Now fire away, you do not intimidate me one tiny little bit Decius, so why don’t you just let it all out and tell me what it is you hate so much. And then if you can manage it, see if you can find one thing that you love.

Humility


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