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Main -> Social Awareness -> Theories / Philosophy on Life  | NewPosts

why continue?

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29 Posts / 20M
     :   20yrs   :  
Scarecrow

Question:
Have any of you ever felt a completeness with every one? I am not just talking about romanticism but a real understanding and feeling that you are not the only consciousness. Feeling another persons thoughts almost. Sort of a deja vu feeling of being in another persons mind and understanding the human struggle we all face. A feeling, not just knowing that after you die things will go on and people will be born and will face challenges and feel like you have felt. Who will live in this world that you have effected, or have lived in this world far before your time and effected you without you knowing. Can you imagine how the founding fathers would have felt in their time, it really wasn't so long ago. Just a kinda thought about life and how it continues.


"Everything we say is a lie no matter how useful it can be."

556 Posts / 32M
     :   20yrs   :  
ChrisD

"What do you want to get enlightened for? You may not like it."- Shunryu Suzuki

Wiser words have never been spoken. These are the words of a truly enlightened being.

Enlightenment - To see life exactly as it is, completely disillusioned.

It's nothing pretty if you ask me... but so entirely irresistable.


"I try my best to be just like I am but everybody wants you to be just like them."

29 Posts / 20M
     :   20yrs   :  
Scarecrow

"Enlightenment - To see life exactly as it is, completely disillusioned. "

That I believe is fundamentally impossible. People make mistakes for many reasons. If you have ever felt that you were right, then later realized you were wrong... you will know what I am trying to say.

I act like I know stuff only because it is applicable and helps me get where and what I want. But I always know that I can be, and am ready to be wrong if some one can convince me of it. Truly I am ignorant.


"Everything we say is a lie no matter how useful it can be."

556 Posts / 32M
     :   20yrs   :  
ChrisD

I never said I was enlightened. I was simply defining it.


"I try my best to be just like I am but everybody wants you to be just like them."

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2848 Posts / 94M
     :   28yrs   :  
Decius

There is nothing pious about claiming to be ignorant except absolute lack of responsibility over your own thoughts and ideas - which is cowardice.

Stand behind your ideas, for they are the best ideas you have, and be willing to accept that they are incorrect if proven so. You will achieve nothing without absolute trust in your ability to decipher probability.

quote:
I act like I know stuff

True honesty is knowing that you know stuff, or not knowing. You shouldn't have to act at all, unless you're pacifying your insecurities. Further, I think you contradict yourself in your own post. If you believe that you can be wrong, then you should never believe that something is "impossible". You should always, only believe that it is unlikely. That is the humility you so graciously mentioned.

quote:
To see life exactly as it is, completely disillusioned.

This has nothing to do with mistakes. I believe it is certainly attainable to the limit that humans are capable of. And I sincerely doubt anyone will be able to prove otherwise. Though they may be able to argue for "unlikely", which will eventually dissolve into "most people don't have the will power to achieve it", which i absolutely agree with.


"Hating everyone protects me from elitism."

29 Posts / 20M
     :   20yrs   :  
Scarecrow

"You live in illusion and the appearance of things. There is a reality but you do not know this. When you understand this, you will see that you are nothing, and being nothing you are everything. That is all" -Kalu Rinpoche

Claiming to be ignorant is only excepting that you can always gain more knowledge and correct beliefs as more information comes your way. It is what you do with the information you have is what matters. I was not in any way dodging responsibility and your point of it being cowardice is a question of morality and ethics at best, and not a question of enlightenment and philosophy.

When I said I act like I know stuff, that was my way of saying that I often stand behind my ideas. True honesty is a joke. We can only do our best at being honest. Nothing "true" about it. And if any response is given to that point please precede it with your definition of "true" and "honesty".

"I believe it is certainly attainable to the limit that humans are capable of. And I sincerely doubt anyone will be able to prove otherwise."

Before any one should attempt to try and prove it correct or incorrect partially or otherwise, I think you should state what you believe is the "limit that humans are capable of".


"Everything we say is a lie no matter how useful it can be."

238 Posts / 49M
     :   46yrs   :  
wizardslogic

Fascinating! True: It is all illusion. I have a very good friend who taught me that evrything is just as it should be, as I want it to be. I just haven't realized that yet. I like that.


"Each conscious mind is alone in the universe!"

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2848 Posts / 94M
     :   28yrs   :  
Decius

quote:
Claiming to be ignorant is only excepting that you can always gain more knowledge and correct beliefs as more information comes your way. It is what you do with the information you have is what matters. I was not in any way dodging responsibility and your point of it being cowardice is a question of morality and ethics at best, and not a question of enlightenment and philosophy.

It is not a question of morality. It is cowardice. You are claiming that you do not stand behind your ideas, if, by definition, you claim that you are ignorant. Ignorance means your ideas have no validity, are unreliable, and you are not intelligent enough to provide correct answers. That is cowardice. There is nothing else to discuss about it except semantics, so that discussion is over.

quote:
True honesty is a joke.

That's an absolute statement. You sound very sure of yourself. Doesn't sound like a person who believes he is ignorant.

quote:
We can only do our best at being honest.

Not really. Honesty is honesty. If you consciously are aware that what you are saying is false, it is a lie. If you consciously know it is not, then it is true. If you consciously become aware that you have a propensity to believe lies through your sub-conscious, it is then your responsibility to challenge those imprints. If you don't you are irresponsible, and therefore, dishonest.

quote:
I think you should state what you believe is the "limit that humans are capable of".

Nah. It's not relevent.

Side note - Scarecrow, we've had lots of people come and go just like you, and your one fallacy is you seem to be "learning" how to think, and in doing so are unfortunately stimulated by banter that seems intellectual but is actually pointless. Specifically, the argument pertaining to "absolute" vs "relative" truths - everyone and their dog knows everything can be questioned, which makes everything relative - nevertheless as humans all we have is probability, which gives us absolutely probable truths, which are undisputable (given all the probabilities).

Do not argue absolute vs relative truths. This is against the forum guidelines, and is a useless topic.


"Hating everyone protects me from elitism."

238 Posts / 49M
     :   46yrs   :  
wizardslogic

Discussions like these always seem so hopeless to me sometimes. Human thought is so diverse and opinions so varied. I do believe there is an absolute truth as opposed to a relative one, but believing such a thing will not change the minds of others since, within each of us, there is center of gravity created by a collective of experience that forms these different thought matrices and the opinions derived from them. I rarely debate with anyone because it seems so fruitless. I like to listen, and sometimes even learn.

However, the question was "why continue?" Existence and experience seems to be the key for me. Human existence and experience, although often marked by tragedy and what may be regarded as evil, can manifest itslef in ways that are noble and expressive of beauty. These higher manifestations of human expression may be the only recognizable value of continued existence. Even the simplest of people who live the simplest lives make powerful impressions in a universal cosmic sense with simple acts of kindness and love. Without continued existence of the human essence there would be only utter darkness in the world. Even lower forms of life can express forms of nobility, and even they unconsciously know that death would discontinue that possibility. All of nature struggles to continue to live despite the most severe hardships. Human beings have created an extremely complex and difficult world to live in, filled with worries and problems that, in the overall scheme of things, have no real substance. Only human beings are foolish enough to even consider ending thier existence. It's very sad, I think.


"Each conscious mind is alone in the universe!"

102 Posts / 31M
     :   23yrs   :  
wittgensteins

Wizard's Logic: do you think the diversity of answers to this question is a sign of strength or weakness? There seem to me to be two (widely discrepant) solutions to this problem: first, the positivistic one (and I mean that in the broadest sense, from Comte to Carnap) which says that any attempt to divine an underlying "meaning" to the reality that subsists is essentially a category error; in a word, it seeks answers to questions which aren't really questions; it fails to see that reality just "is", that reason is a conglomerate of recursive laws with no recourse to extraneous logic; in sum, it does not deign to bracket all the impudent anthropomorphisms of subjectivity as it enters the province of objectivity!
The second solution is to say that, although the question is a valid one, it nevertheless brooks no answer. This is the existentialist response. In the absence of what Lyotard called "grand narratives", life essentially becomes recreative.
None of these seem to me to be satisfactory. The question indeed is an ethical one. It arises on the back of the assumption that man has a telos, some sort of determinate role in the cosmos.


238 Posts / 49M
     :   46yrs   :  
wizardslogic

Interesting. However, I'm more inclined to believe that the fact that the question exists, and that such a question seems to be deeply rooted in the human psyche that cries out for an answer, that great works of art and literature attempt, whether subtly or overtly, to provide an answer yo that question, is atleast an indicator that the question has merit, and possibly even an answer, an answer that may go well beyond the limited sphere of positivistic or existentialist thought.


"Each conscious mind is alone in the universe!"

238 Posts / 49M
     :   46yrs   :  
wizardslogic

And, no, the existence of diverse opinions is not a weakness and is, oftentimes, a good thing. I just said that I will not debate simply because it really doesn't change anyone's views significantly. People hold on to thier views, even when they are shaken. They simply discard those points that disagree with thier own conclusions, and only rarely do they even re-eavaluate thier overall scheme of thought. And, more often than not, simply scoff at anyone who disagrees with them, attacking them with everything but a valid argument. I'd rather listen and learn.


"Each conscious mind is alone in the universe!"

76 Posts / 21M
     :   21yrs   :  
Sky1234

I didn't read all the post or replies, if what i say is redundant, just tell me.

Yes, everything have end, even life. I am going to die one day and everything else that i work for doesn't really matter, but I still work, because why? I want to make my life better.

Life is there, it will start and end eventually no matter you like it or not, but it is a choice to make it better.

Life is here, just depend on how you shape it.


"Beware of the dog"

2 Posts / 19M
     :   26yrs   :  
williamhessian

i think all intelligent people ask the very same questions. (i dont consider myself all that intellectual) but i also have asked the same questions and i think we have two options when considering this dilema:

1. we accept it: find what we love to do, and do it. try to come to terms with death, life and everything inbetween. Be as happy as we can, no matter what is happening around us.

2. we try to transcend it: this involves something that may not exist. this involves the continuation of technology. we assume that we can live forever once we are smart enough, that we are limitless beings once we know enough (which again may or may not be true). Basically it does provide hope for those intelligent people that do not want to accept fate. It we learn enough, fast enough, can we acchieve immortality?

this brings up a load of other questions. like evolution, purpose, righteousness, humans as disease on a much larger host, etc.


"none"

2 Posts / 19M
     :   26yrs   :  
williamhessian

"I'd rather listen and learn." wizardslogic

me too. and im glad.


"none"

why continue?
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