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Stoned in love, but not with you.

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U.N. Owen

Stoned in love, but not with you. [+ favourites]

Dear Eva,

I have been seeing a girl, for this question I will call her [Lisa], for over four years. I think that our relationship has lasted as long as it has, in part, because of the lack of pressure. Neither of us wants to live with someone romantically, or marry, until our 30s at the earliest.

She is very attractive, strong, and opinionated. She is 19, turning 20 in December, and I am 21, as of this September. For the past two years, our relationship has steadily declined toward the shallow and boring. In the last six months, we've done little else but watch movies together, and coppulate.

Lisa has very little ambition, and direction in life. This past year, she managed part of a store, accumulated a savings of about five thousand, and quit her job so she could essentially do nothing.

Conversely, I am approaching a master's degree in international conflict management. I want to use my skills and knowledge to do what I can, to help the planet come a little closer to peace.

To this end, I am going to be embarking on a 6 month voyage to Central America at the end of the year, in a study abroad program at my University. For this question, I will refer to the country as [Honduras].

About two weeks ago, Lisa tried to break up with me. She said that she didn't want to 'tie me down' while I was in Honduras. We worked through this, but during the all-night conversation, we began to speak of expansive possibilities after I return. I realized that, regardless of where I go or what I do, we didn't have much longer.

Lisa does not love herself or respect herself, and I realized that a large part of the decline in our relationship was due to this, and due to my not being able to completely love or respect her because of this. I decided that, if it was going to end in the near future anyway, and after all the tears and anguish we experienced that night, it might be a good idea to simply end it then. But I still cared for her, and quite a bit.

I gave her an ultematum- if we would both start trying a lot harder, and she tried to begin loving herself, and respecting herself, I would stay. I left her place, and called 3 days later. I could tell that she had been crying. We decided to renew, and begin again. The next 4 days were incredible- we spent all our time together, going to dinner, walks through parks and across beaches, picnics, wall-climbing, and frequent, long bouts of the best sex I'd had in two years.

Then she had to help her grandparents move into their new house, in correlation with my going back to school. We didn't see one another for 5 days, and when we did, I could tell that things had already began to slip back. That was about 5 days ago.

Last May, I met [Terra]. It was at a pre-orientation meeting for Honduras, in a sectioned-off part of the campus bar. She was amazing- her confidence, beaming smile, and even her impeccable fashion sense all captured my attention immediately and held it through the evening.

I have seen and done a lot in my life. I've witnessed a loved one die, fought off violent punks and muggers, spoken with international leaders, and been with 4 girls at the same time. My private life has been characterized by the seeking of thrills, and new experiences.

I say this to give it weight, when I tell you that meeting Terra completely shattered my reality, and brought whole new meaning into the words nervous excitement for me. She sat next to me at the meeting, and it was literally all I could do to keep from passing out. I couldn't breathe, couldn't think, and I'm sure that I wouldn't have been able to stand if I had to. I've dated and hooked up with a lot of what people would call "babes", but I was completely unprepared for Terra's beauty and energy.

After the meeting, I only saw Terra a few times in the halls of the University, and every time it got a bit easier, but not much. I still have to lean against walls when I'm near her, to keep my knees from buckling. As a mixed curse and blessing, I have a night class with her this semester, "Topics in Latin American Politics", with only 9 other people in the class. It's a beautiful hell.

Terra is going to Honduras as well, and I think that if I focus, I can win her heart before we return, if not before we embark.

I am content in my current relationship, with Lisa, but I am not happy. There is something important that has been worn or burned away from our relationship, that I'm not sure we can get back. More importantly to me, Lisa is still completely devoted to me. She calls me her 'soulmate', and thinks that she'll never meet another guy that will treat her as good as I have. This is partly due to us being together for so long, and her not being able to imagine life withotu me. This is also partly due to her self esteem issues, and I have made frequent attempts to convince her otherwise, right from the beginning.

I know that if I leave Lisa, it will devestate her world. Almost all of our friends have a much stronger connection to me than they do to her, and I'm fairly sure that the last time she went out socially without me there as well, was about three months ago.

Additionally (and selfishly), there is of course no guarantees about what could happen between me and Terra. This excites me more than scares me, but it also presents the possibility of being alone. Like Lisa, after being in a relationship for so long, this is an unsettling prospect.

I need your advice, Eva; I don't think I can turn to anyone else in my life. What do you think I should do?

Thank you deeply and sincerely in advance, for your reply.

Awaiting anxiously,
- [Donovan]

ADMINISTRATOR
36 Posts / 39M
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Eva

Hi Donovan,

I think you have a clear handle of what is going on and also what you "should" do. Unfortunately, I think you also know what you are probably going to do.

The pursuit of Terra at this point is not a moral or correct choice because you do not know her well enough, you are being dishonest with Lisa, and you would be making a decision based on a very biased perspective. Aside from the morality, your own benefit lies in making well educated choices which means you cannot make a decision about this while you desire Terra.

The only absolute solution that would solve this problem is for you to first absolutely remove the possibility of you pursuing Terra. Your mind must not, in any little crevice, consider that a possibility. What you do to achieve this is self-explanatory.

Once this is completed, not only will you have a remarkably clear view of Lisa, but you can then be honest with her.

Of course what I am suggesting goes against what you are feeling. But you do know it is correct.

Your perspective that things have been going downhill for 2 years is not valid as I'm certain you've been looking for faults in Lisa ever since you met Terra. The facade of fashionable confidence in a woman is very attractive to a man and men generally cannot see beyond it. Although you are experienced, I doubt you can say you know "who" Terra is.

It is important to remember that transitions are painful but you are happy before the transition and happy after the transition. 99% of people live in a caged fashion because they fear transitions, which makes no sense since transitions, by definition, end.

You must be completely honest with Lisa whom you have invested 4 years of your life with. You must not attempt to protect her from truth because she is an adult, and you are an adult. And as adults it is both your responsibilities to let the other adult cope with the harshness of reality. Lisa will never "evolve" into a self-loving person if she believes you are lying to her. And somewhere, she knows you are. When a person is being lied to, they feel worthless.

Her attempt to break everything off was an effort to maintain control: she feels you are drifting away and so rather than face the situation of you leaving her, she's suggesting that she wants to leave you.

People are very intuitive. They can tell, like an odor, when someone around them feels something. Lisa knows what's going on even if she's not willing to face it entirely. Terra also knows what's going on. Your mind also knows what's going on.

But you're permitting your mind's desire towards Terra to delude yourself into thinking that you are justified in leaving Lisa because of her shortcomings and your lack of compatibility. This is not true, because you currently have a biased reason to find shortcomings in her.

Lisa is worn down and weak. Your good few days together was her giving herself to you. It bears no resemblance to true confidence. You should not seek a slave, but a person who is confident and chooses to serve you. If she fears you leaving her, she is doing it out of desperation, like a prostitute. And your dishonesty is making her this way.

I do not subscribe to a general morality. However, I do firmly believe that immoral actions generally cause unhappiness in the perpetrator because humans want to be moral individuals. If your purpose is therefore happiness, then you must first cleanse your mind of biases, then logically make decisions. If at the end of your logical analysis of your relationship with Lisa you decide to end it, then you will have done so with nothing pulling you towards it. Any relationship you pursue after that will be more fruitful, more deserved, and encompass no guilt.

It is impossible for you to pursue Terra and derive anything healthy out of it if you continue on the current path. If you are looking to experience new things and are plainly tired of being tied down, then the pursuit of Terra is justified.

However, I am assuming that you are not looking to just fool around.

Please feel free to post your thoughts on this to continue further.

Eva


U.N. Owen

Thank you so much for replying Eva, this is a matter that has been weighing greatly on my mind... You're extrordinarily perceptive.

Near the end of your reply, this passage is what struck me the hardest.
If at the end of your logical analysis of your relationship with Lisa you decide to end it, then you will have done so with nothing pulling you towards it. Any relationship you pursue after that will be more fruitful, more deserved, and encompass no guilt.

As for the infatuation I've been experiencing for Terra, I believe that you are right on both accounts- it has, to at least some degree, coloured my handling of my current relationship. It has given me something of a life raft external to my relationship with Lisa, which is not fair to her. I believe you are also writing very wisely when you advise that any future possiblities with Terra will not be nearly as fruitful, unless I resolve the present properly and without unnecessary subjective bias...

It's not that I've been looking for faults in Lisa; because of Terra or otherwise... Conversely, I believe that I have in fact escalated the drift between us, by placating myself and ignoring the problems. Writing now as objectively as I can before further meditation on what I can do to remove Terra from the picture, my intuition and feelings are still toward ending things with Lisa.

Our aims in life are too different... she wants nothing, and I want everything. I have tried everything I can think of to encourage her to find her own happiness, apart from what we have, but she seems to be simply drifting along in life, desiring nothing.

Today, I was advised by an unlikely confidant that as long as we're together, she never will. Eva, do you have further advice on this particular aspect of the matter? I want to do what is best for both of us.

Awaiting in appreciation and greater clarity,
- Donovan

ADMINISTRATOR
36 Posts / 39M
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Eva

Hi Donovan,

I do not disagree or agree with whether your relationship with Lisa dampens her own personal evolution. In all likelihood, she attempts to make you feel guilty and yearns for you to control and baby her, and you have grown to accept this responsibility.

However, this can be fixed with dedication and interest on both parts.

I am simply stressing one undeniable fact: You cannot make (logical) decisions about Lisa until Terra is not there.

Neither you nor I can be certain of who Lisa is until Terra is no longer there.

It is impossible to attempt to think consciously logically when you are sub-consciously bound in one direction. You must free your sub-conscious mind so that you may use it to analyze correctly any decisions you will make about Lisa.

I am aware that this is not a pleasant or easy solution, but it is the most honest, moral, and full-proof one.

Further, you cannot rely on my observations of Lisa or anyone else's. You must follow your heart, and you cannot hear your heart because Terra's name and presence is being echoed in your mind.

Again, you cannot escape losing any possibilities with Terra if you hope to make accurate decisions about Lisa. Once you are honest with Lisa and you are operating from your mind with no anchors, then we can discuss your relationship with Lisa. At this point, that isn't purposeful.

Eva


U.N. Owen

Hello again Eva,

Thank you once again for all your insight into this quandry; your words have been a tremendous help.

I am still in the process of meditating upon much of the advice given to me by you and others; I am posting now to provide a bit more information and perhaps clarity, in case it sparks further insight.

I think we're giving too much credit to the influence of Terra upon my decision. The disatisfactions I've experienced with Lisa have existed, and come up on several occasions, over the past two years, and I don't think that my attraction to Terra has affected in anyway the question of whether or not to end things with Lisa.

What they have done, is affected the question of when to end things with Lisa. To this end, I have as much as possible excluded the possibility of pursuing Terra from my deliberations concerning my relationship with Lisa.

I really think that the major difficulty in this issue, is that my relationship with Lisa is very much in a grey area. I am content, though disatisfied, and I believe that she at least thinks herself to be satisfied.

Like I mentioned earlier in this reply, the difficulty I'm having is in deciding how necessary it is for me to bring things to a close. I know that she still thinks that she's happy, and I'm certainly content, if unsatisfied. Considering that we will be seperated by my studying abroad for 6 months in the near future, it is feasible that we could drag things out another year.

This raises two questions then... one being whether it is worth continued disatisfaction and unfulfilment of needs, to continue being romantically content for another year... and the other being whether it is fair to her to do so.

I cannot express in cold text how much I appreciate the efforts you have made on my behalf, to aid me in this unfamiliar and frightening transition. Your advice has made a significant difference.

- Donovan

ADMINISTRATOR
36 Posts / 39M
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Eva

Donovan:

quote:
meeting Terra completely shattered my reality, and brought whole new meaning into the words nervous excitement for me. She sat next to me at the meeting, and it was literally all I could do to keep from passing out. I couldn't breathe, couldn't think, and I'm sure that I wouldn't have been able to stand if I had to. I've dated and hooked up with a lot of what people would call "babes", but I was completely unprepared for Terra's beauty and energy.


quote:
I think we're giving too much credit to the influence of Terra upon my decision


As per what I said, whether you and Lisa have genuine problems or not, this cannot be decided while you are interested in Terra. The existence of doubts before meeting Terra is not relevent.

You are attempting to justify your actions by Lisa's shortcomings without addressing the fact that you are lying to her.

As per my first statement in response to your initial post, I believe you already know what you are going to do. You are certifying this by now asserting that you are certain you will be ending things with Lisa.

If you are choosing to do so while Terra is in the picture, then there is no further advice I can provide you. This is because the basis of your actions are not solid. If the base is not solid, it is impossible for us to try to make accurate decisions and any advice I provide you will most likely not work.

Eva


Stoned in love, but not with you.
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