Excerp: Rape-Slaying in Iraq by US Soldiers

Well, I'm done my rant.

Without taxes, soldiers wouldn't be raping teenagers in foreign lands.

Do we know they are raping teenagers?

Yes.

Could we have predicted it?

Yes.

Therefore, we contributed to them raping teenagers.

That blood is on our hands because we paid for the guns and the planes and the food these raping soldiers needed to complete their gang bang session.

End of story.

There is no doubt that difficulty exists in taking steps to prevent feeding the US economy and therefore fueling this sort of animalistic barbaric behaviour. But just because such steps are hard is no reason to perceive that we're doing "all we can".

We most certainly aren't.

"Hating everyone protects me from elitism."

Anti Americanism is a hatred towards freedom of speech, the free enterprise system, and freedom of religion. Before America was born there were kings and monarchies and state churches. A person could be hung, imprisoned or banished for their stated beliefs. A time when only the rich and privileged was given a chance, the rest would be simple laborers in servitude to those born with power.

I'm proud of my country and have served her honorably, the mother of freedom, Democracy around the world was born from her womb.

However, as Eisenhower has warned, a military industrial complex has arisen within our great country, fixing the election and stamping on the constitution, creating terrorism and anti-Americanism around the globe. Those of us struggling to get our country back with threats of jail and loss of job must also be watchful of terrorism and endure Anti Americanism sprung up from self righteous capitalists disguising their sins with the pointing of fingers. For example: The site administrator Decius of the Captain Cynic Forum http://www.captaincynic.com/ out of Canada who claims every American is to blame for a girl being raped in Iraq because they pay taxes and should endure his railing:

http://okcitykid.blogspot.com/2006/08/canadian-online-forum-turns-anti.
html

http://my.opera.com/Okcitykid/blog/show.dml/399044

http://okcitykid.braveblog.com/entry/22681

"A fool says I know and a wise man says I wonder."

Thanks for promoting the site.

Although, I find this interesting. You've never posted something as colorful as this in here:

quote:

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I've been a member of Captain Cynic for some years contributing to the forum and now because of the sins of a few the self righteous are given license to verbally abuse the innocent, even the very ones, inside, fighting against this fascist state. Nothing new to me, back in the seventies they would spit in my face, call me names and throw beer bottles at me because of Vietnam, all because I was a sailor. These are the same people who nailed Jesus to the cross, and they too will have their day.

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"Hating everyone protects me from elitism."

This reminds me of two dogs each pissing on their own territory trying to claim their mark, rather than share it.

If you could both see that both your intentions are right here, but that the people you claim as the accused differ, this can be easily resolved. This point is not necessarily about what is wrong, but who the wrong-doer is.

I think both of you see what wrong is in general; but don't understand, ultimately, why this wrong is done. Or if you do, your not very good at comunicating it.

I see you stand by principles Decius and that you see people should have a responsibility; inherent in this is the belief that some are stronger willed than others; and the weak and strong (not physically) are seperated.

I empathise with OKCitychild that the people of America are not to blame; at least the ones who did not vote in George Bush.

I see two sides to this; the arch princapilist and the person who has principles and understands the limits of human blame, respectively.

The truth is that those who are to blame; know deep down they are to blame.

Some of these will have the knowledge; but don't have the capacity of strength to find it within them to stand up against what is wrong. They aren't to blame in my eyes. To put it another way they are as much to blame as the strong who lack the ability to understand.

The people who are more to blame are these;

Those that have the knowledge and the capacity of strength to stand up against what is wrong; but do not; chosing instead to profit from their own incentives at the cost of others. But these people themselves still have reasons why due to insecurity or weakness. We are just human.

I don't see that either of your intentions here are at fault; but that the effect of how you have communicated has set a rift which could have so easily been avioded by either one of you by saying 'let it be' in regards to the other's comments.

Launching blame, mostly, is the reult of finding faults in others and not yourself. Decius, I can see how you have prevented this point by saying you are at fault also, but that doesn't necessarily stand for others. OkCityKid, I can see where you are coming from w.r.t Vietnam, I have voiced my opinions on this before, but you have to deal with this pain to become greater.

We are clearly not ready to comprehend matters of this nature yet. But let's work toegther if that's what we're trying to do.

""No words""

Heyjme, you attempt, again as I stated, to create a "wash" when there is no equality in the discussion.

quote:

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Those that have the knowledge and the capacity of strength to stand up against what is wrong; but do not; chosing instead to profit from their own incentives at the cost of others. But these people themselves still have reasons why due to insecurity or weakness. We are just human.

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quote:

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Those that have the knowledge and the capacity of strength to stand up against what is wrong

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"Hating everyone protects me from elitism."

quote:

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People who, with their "good intentions", supported the war because we were "freeing Iraqis". These people passionately, with wholehearted love, fought to support the war to protect the nation of America from the threat of terrorism.

Are these bad people? No, their intentions are beautiful.

They are terribly dangerous, however. They are the ones giving power to the wrong people.

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""No words""

You're not absorbing my point, which is why you keep miss-responding.

People are not incapable. Your bullshit idea that everyone is the result of their environment and that this disclaims them from responsibiilty for their actions is something you can hold onto in a bubble. Don't involve it in real situations.

Unless, of course, you'd be wonderfully understanding of a man who rapes your mother because he thought she actually wanted it, and was told over and over that this isn't the way it really is.

The rest of your post goes on about things that aren't relevent.

I find it distasteful that people are so bent on freeing themselves of responsibility towards their fellow man. There is no excuse for apathy: it is selfishness.

"Hating everyone protects me from elitism."

I'd do harm to him; because it pisses me off that he's hurt my mother; possibly not because my mother's been harmed either; but because my hate for him from my knowledge of rape is bad would be the reason. The fact that my mother actually got hurt would also be a reason. But possibly not the prime reason. Thats my point here. Of course, if I were like everybody else, I'd simply state all the usual; 'thats a horrible experience for my mother' so I'd kill him the bastard. But the reason is not the whole truth.

""No words""

...

so you'd hold him liable for raping your mother... but you don't hold Americans liable for putting gangbanging soldiers with guns in Iraq...

So, by that rationale, you are stating that he should have known better, and Americans shouldn't.

So you're saying that his environmental conditioning does not free him as it does Americans.

Okay.

So, since it's not your 14 year old sister being raped, you can understand why a 23 year old older brother of the young girl that was gang banged and shot would want to blow Americans up, right?

I mean, according to him, they should know better, just like you think your mother's rapist should know better.

So who's right?

"Hating everyone protects me from elitism."

I understand why he'd want to blow Americans up. This is a tragedy, unfortunately, we are left with the disposition of having to take sides.

As the causal links between things extend the infleunce of one person dissolves from one's direct knowledge or sight of what will or could happen and action thereof into trust. That is the nature of risk.

""No words""

There's nothing tragic about it.

Anger exists only when pain is caused to you by wilful sources.

If someone dies, we blame God. If Iraqis die, we blame Americans.

If Americans lived in a dictatorship where the people were opposed to everything bad the government did, do you think Muslims would kill civilians?

The anger is the result of wilful negligence.

This is demonstrated by Okcitykid. He is wilfully negligent of responsibilitiy. You are wilfully negligent because you wish to believe people "don't have a choice".

Your innability to understand that if you want to kill someone that rapes your mother, yet you think it is bad to blame Americans for death and raped Iraqis, that you are a hypocrite.

This is wilful. This creates anger.

This is why a majority of Americans should be the target of anger. Because there are wilfully ignorant.

Any American that has suffered the pain of not being ignorant will openly admit that they are wilfully ignorant because they cannot take it. Or, they are devoting their lives to changing the way things are.

Anyone who claims no responsibility is wilfully avoiding it. Just like the man who raped your mom. There are too many influences that lead you to the conclusion that he wanted to believe that your mom wanted it. This is why you have anger.

If he was truly forced into it, and tried to fight it but couldn't, and repented doing it afterwards, you wouldn't have anger towards him in any way. Yet the action is exactly the same.

Americans that do not claim responsibility for the murders, the rapes, and the international terror that America is flooding the world with are wilfully choosing to believe this, because it is convenient.

Just like Okcitykid.

Everyone else gets a rock in their stomach when they see the news. Everyone else feels a raging hatred towards the injustices that are ocurring every day, every minute on our tax dollars. Everyone else wants to do something. Everyone else finds out as much as they can about the world they live in so that they can share in the pain, share in the burden.

That's love. That's responsibility.

"Hating everyone protects me from elitism."

Let us first consider rape. Rape is different from murder because at least murder coulkd be excused as defence; if you kill some one they are not going to kill you. Rape, however, is violation because someone has tha ability to do it. In some situations this may not be true; but in all situations the above difference is true.

Thus the rape of any Iraqi is wrong; it is someone doing something to get a kick out of it; it is not an act generated out of fear, but out of lust.

Murder in this situation, if wrong, can still be seen as someone acting out of fear.

The murdering of Iraqis is a different matter. And it depends upon your political point of view. I think on the surface we were wrong to go to war and we are being lied to. Some of the soldiers who went to war believe in the system because that is all they know; they have been brainwashed. Some have not. The soldiers are not wrong, but perhaps SOME of the people who send them to war are if, and only if, these conditions are met:

1) They believe the reasons to go to war were wrong
2) They believe they should not pay taxes

The second part is less black and white:

1) Some of these people have children and partners for example.

2) Some of these people are scared of leaving.

The first condition of whether to pay their taxes is really difficult for me to judge so I won't.

The people in the second situation, are people lacking virtue, but for me personally, I can't help but symapthise with them for they are sheep; just as were the normal people of Germany in WW2, though admitedly to a lesser degree. I don't feel equally as compassionate for the Iraqi's in the same way I feel more towards my mother than someone else's mother. However, this gap has very much narrowed for me; most people are not so fortunate. If we want to do one of our functions and that is to reproduce you have to side.

Some people of course will hope and will fight tooth and nail to get a better candidate in next time, whlist admittedly not going ot war.

""No words""

I'm not going to continue the conversation because you are accepting that you are a hypocrite, but giving reasons for being this way (and therefore justifying others as well), which is acceptable but still an act of cowardice.

I will respond to your comments abour rape vs murder: There is very little difference between rape and murder. As you learn more about the male need to dominate women, you see that the line between violence and sex becomes extremely blurred.

Your reasoning behind the anger supports what I said, you just don't realize it because you're not looking above your base emotions. If it is out of fear, you regard it as a less wilful act of violence. What you fail to realize is that both rape and murder are acts of fear manifested differently. This is why there should be very little difference in your reaction.

The primary reason rape angers you more than murder also supports my point: It is an act of severe violence that targets something deep within males specifically, for males are more likely to react violently to rape than a woman would.

"Hating everyone protects me from elitism."

No matter how pure principles are; living through our times whilst attemting to have principles or ethics will always endure an amount of hippocracy. Every time I start my car I'm doing harm from an environmentalists persepective.

In absolute terms fear is what creates the perceived evil. But evil still has to be perceieved; and by what?

Keep in mind that one purpose we have, perhaps the only definite one, is that life seems to want to breed life.

If you have not done so already have a read of meditations by Marcus Aurelius for a practical philosophy.

""No words""

"Until we go through it ourselves, until our people cower in the shelters of New York, Washington, Chicago, Los Angeles and elsewhere while the buildings collapse overhead and burst into flames, and dead bodies hurtle about and, when it is over for the day or the night, emerge in the rubble to find some of their dear ones mangled, their homes gone, their hospitals, churches, schools demolished - only after that gruesome experience will we realize what we are inflicting on the people of Indochina ..."
William Shirer, 1973 (author, "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich : A History of Nazi Germany" )

"Hating everyone protects me from elitism."