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Top Eight Reasons To Impeach Bush

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2203 Posts / 67M
     :   49yrs   :  
okcitykid

We spilled the milk, now who will clean it up?

It would have been easier if we hadn't destroyed the Iraqi Army that's what I'm talking about.

True - our military is far larger then it should be and true it is used for capitalistic gains, but you don't blame the soldier for it.

leftwood - I agree with everything you are saying, but the soldiers are only instruments. Money is the root of all evil - now will you give up your use of money, no - you need it. We don't need to be a millionaire, but we do need money. We don't need a 500 billion dollar military, but we do need one, and to have that army, people have to volunteer, the volunteers are not the criminals.

The criminals are those who use those volunteers deceitfully.

In Africa whole villages are being wiped out, they need an army to stop it but don't have one, and if we were really the liberators we claim to be, that's where we would be. There is a place in this world for a military, but in an unbalanced world, it appears to be in the wrong place, but that is not the fault of the soldier.


"A fool says I know and a wise man says I wonder."

4026 Posts / 51M
     :   31yrs   :  
Ironwood

quote:
leftwood - I agree with everything you are saying, but the soldiers are only instruments.


My main point is that it is the responsibility of all soldiers and citizens to expose and defeat corruption and lies within our government.

I merely repeated what Bush said and is the unfortunate reality behind any war with sides and the soldiers that fall on them.

Taking orders is no excuse for killing innocents. Never has been, never will be.

Being lied to doesn't change the fact that you are shooting, bombing, and even torturing people. This is where common sense, basic morals, and written laws are supposed to come into mind.

But WE ALL ALLOW our government to practice tactics of deciet and manipulation. Then act shocked or simply deny when we get lied to and manipulated.

I'm not blaming soldiers for Iraq or anything, I'm just not dismissing their current importance in what is happening or acting like they should be kept out of the loop in respect to the concerns and allegations regarding their orders.


"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"

2203 Posts / 67M
     :   49yrs   :  
okcitykid

"If it was me, I would" are words easily spoken but the heroes are few.

In a world were anybody can just walk into a crowd and blow themselves up, it is difficult to determine just who the enemy is and who is innocent and it is a difficult job to take out terrorists without taking out innocent people.

As I said, we opened the cages and let the lions out, maybe that was a bad example, because unfortunately these lions look just like everybody else.

This is a problem we created not doubt and we are left with no easy solution.

When we pulled out of Vietnam, hundreds, probably thousands died as the Vietcong just came right in and started cutting people down, and likely if we left Iraq today, the same thing would happen. But, if that's what we have to do, then that's what we'll do, and there will be soldiers who will want to stay and continue fighting, because that's what they do, but they will do as they are told, because that's what their trained to do. Some say, brain washed, maybe - but they have to do as they are told, the military doesn't work without discipline.

I've disobeyed a direct order once - the chief turned all red tells me I can be court marshaled, luckily another chief stands up and says I'm just following orders and anything other than that would be an unlawful order. But that was a recruiting command and I already had over 5 years under my belt. It's not so simple for a junior enlisted on their first tour in a place Iraq where some people smile during the day and at night they're shooting at you, where anybody could walk up to you and blow themselves up.

I remember when soldiers coming back from Vietnam were spit at and called names, I remember being spit at and called names and I didn't even go there.

It's an honorable thing to serve your country and just because you wear the uniform or happen to go to Iraq does not mean that you're guilty of any crimes.

That I know of - the only crime BMX has committed is believing in Mr. Bush, unfortunately thats half of this country, and they are not serving in Iraq.


"A fool says I know and a wise man says I wonder."

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2866 Posts / 94M
     :   28yrs   :  
Decius

You are are criminal if you follow orders that result in wrong doing.

This is logical, because there is no limit to where that hole goes. Claiming that you are just serving your country is the same as claiming that you ran over three people in an effort to protect your car from being dented.

You cannot place one priority as the almighty goal no matter what other factors are affected. This is the defence of ignorance, which is not acceptable (by law) in this country.

The only exception to this rule seems to be the army, which is precisely why illegal activites that would otherwise be highly frowned upon in a domestic situation occur in the army.

The only way to prevent such things from happening is to make each individual soldier just as liable for their actions as a domestic civilian is. Will this slow down the war effort?

Not if the government is transparent about their intentions and actions.


"Hating everyone protects me from elitism."

Top Eight Reasons To Impeach Bush
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