Intellagentdesign

oh ya - and no wonder we are facing Global Warming.

"A fool says I know and a wise man says I wonder."

You have a rather odd attitude to evolution/science okcitykid. I'll tell you the sad thing.....is that religion feebly claims fact. Science claims theory.

a. Its not a matter of whether your 'vote counts', it is a belief. 'Evolution' rejects ID because the whole scientific community recognises a productive difference. There is only a very select few that claim ID is a science. Most Christians and religous people who are scientists recognise that ID is theology, but not science. They understand that ID is not a science. To ignore this is narrow minded and simply a consequence of pure naivity.

b. Exactly. You don't care. That is the issue, because you see no problem if it is or not taught in science. It seems you see no productive difference.

c.

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I believe if we took I.D. and evolution out of science and put them into a theory class, there would be less conflict, and we could go onto more important things

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A belief that everything has been created by chance I believe is less logical then believing that there is intelligence behind creation

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Neither can natural selection explain how it just naturally selects

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"The summit is just a halfway point"

Both evolution and creationism look at the same evidence. Each interprets the data differently. The question to ask is which one fits reality best?

It is said that for 1 human enzyme to form by chance is a number with 40000 zeros. Funnily enough the number of atoms in the known universe is a number with 80 zeros. It is a mathematical improbability.

BTW. evolution is only a theory after the existence of life. What happened to create the first living organism and the universe?

""What we do in life echoes in eternity" Maximus"

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It is said that for 1 human enzyme to form by chance is a number with 40000 zeros. Funnily enough the number of atoms in the known universe is a number with 80 zeros. It is a mathematical improbability.

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"The summit is just a halfway point"

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'Evolution' rejects ID because the whole scientific community recognizes a productive difference

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It seems you see no productive difference

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I'm sorry but are you kidding! Why do you think this? Chance is probability. Logic=probability.

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its theology

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The pseudo-code algorithm for how a scientific idea develops is:

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Most scientific ideas have followed this whole process

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evolutionary biology explains and scientifically proves the process of natural selection

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The modern theory of evolution is based on the concept of natural selection. This was proposed in a joint 1858 paper by Charles Darwin and Alfred Russel Wallace, and achieved a wider readership in Darwin's 1859 book, The Origin of Species. Natural selection is the idea that individuals who possess advantageous heritable traits are more likely to survive and reproduce. In doing so, they increase the frequency of such traits in subsequent generations.

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"A fool says I know and a wise man says I wonder."

Yes it is evidence considering scientists have hypothesized ID as a potential theory, yet it then fails as it falls short of any scientific analytical method. If science rejects ID because they realise it isn't scientific, then its a given. Science understands that ID is theology. Most believers of ID understand and accept that ID is theology.

Is there anything that makes you think ID has or can be proven though? It would be interesting to see if there is any logical and evidential reasoning of ID. As much as science is concerned, there is an absence of this in the theology of ID.

What makes you think ID=probability? ID is founded on illogical reasoning- ie. god as a supernatural realm, and creationism.

Theology teaches more than the 'moon and stars'.

Why don't you understand the pseudo-code algorithm for a scientific theory?

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There is no evidence of either intelligence or natural selection

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"The summit is just a halfway point"
[  Edited by summit at   ]

Reminds me of an old wives tale, I read in school.


There was this couple working on some project, & it seems they were using photographic film related to it because they had some in a desk drawer where they were studying some rock samples.
Seems they found that the film was fogged? Now, if it had been me, I would have called the supplier & vigerously advocate that they had sent some bad batch of film or had fogged the film because of improper handling. Demanding they should replace the film at their expense.
Now I don't know why but may be they decided to process all the film to see if it was all unusable and in doing so noted that there was some pattern or vague form (unfocused image) in the exposed film? I think they were called Currie or something like that but then it was just some old tale I heard.

Oh, they discovered by further examination that the rocks they were stuying seemed to emitted some kind of radiation. Turns out it was quite dangerous as their studies cause them to absorb leathal doses of that radiation, but they weren't aware of that effect . . .back then.

"Terrorist or tyrant, few may come to the Truth that both are poor choice."

Summit - it would seem to me that you believe as u do because most of science believes as you.

But if you look at history it is always that one person who sees something that no one else seems to notice who leads everyone else into a new realization. As I said, it was once impossible to believe that the world was round. Though the Hindus have always believed that the world was round, I'm sure that was just assumed religion.

My whole logic behind ID is simple - it seems impossible to believe that this whole world just happened to just fall together by accident even if it takes billions of years.

If you take puzzle pieces and throw them on a table and wait a billion years you will still have puzzle pieces on a table. You won't get that puzzle until something puts it together, and we are one of the greatest puzzles on this earth. It doesn't happen by its self, plain and simple - that is my logic.

If I'm supposed to believe in evolution because most scientists say so then you should believe that to get to heaven you must be baptized because most Christian ministers say so.

I do believe you are smart and believe what you believe because you have decided to, not because everybody else does.

But if you're going to make me believe something - you're not going to make me believe anything by explaining that MOST this or that believe. That means absolutely nothing to me, I throw that right out the window. Because it was that ONE scientist who everyone laughed at who discovered something new.

That is likely the way it goes. You will find people will believe without much question the first thing they are told, it is only when someone brings up an opposing point of view that they will really question something, and that of course is that opposing point of view. So it is very difficult for us to ever learn anything new, especially when you throw pride, arrogance, narrow mindedness and prejudice into the mix. It is amazing we learn anything at all.

"A fool says I know and a wise man says I wonder."

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My whole logic behind ID is simple - it seems impossible to believe that this whole world just happened to just fall together by accident even if it takes billions of years...If you take puzzle pieces and throw them on a table and wait a billion years you will still have puzzle pieces on a table. You won't get that puzzle until something puts it together, and we are one of the greatest puzzles on this earth. It doesn't happen by its self, plain and simple

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"The summit is just a halfway point"
[  Edited by summit at   ]

Maybe we have a different definition of creationism.

Why is it impossible to beleive that God created evolution?

"A fool says I know and a wise man says I wonder."

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Why is it impossible to beleive that God created evolution?

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"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"

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Evolutionary change, therefore, must be due to 5 causitive factors.
These factors are: random mating, mutation, migration, genetic drift, and natural selection.

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"Terrorist or tyrant, few may come to the Truth that both are poor choice."

Okcitykid:

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Why is it impossible to beleive that God created evolution?

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"The summit is just a halfway point"

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Now it would be appreciative if you could give reasoning for my questions (for the 3rd time!)

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"A fool says I know and a wise man says I wonder."

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And I would like to add because of other comments elsewhere, ID is not the teaching of Adam and Eve.

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Random mating and cell division are different processes.
Evolution involves changes within a population of a species.

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"Terrorist or tyrant, few may come to the Truth that both are poor choice."