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Chimps - are they really that close to us?

User Thread
 39yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Rajpal is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Chimps - are they really that close to us?
Ive heard many people and scientists remark that our d.n.a is 98% the same as chimps. many of us try to explain human intelligence and behaviour by looking at apes but are these creatures really that intelligence and as similar to what people think. I recently saw a documentary about the dark side of chimps, it showed a side of chimps that most people dont see. Most only see the cute and clever side, but they dont see the violence these creatures can demonstrate. I saw here that chimps in the wild often attack, beat and even kill other chimps male and female and may even kill baby chimps from a rival group. Isnt this the sort of behaviour we regard as being "barbaric" in humans. We have a biased opinion of these creatures intelligence because of their genetic similarity to us.
That 2% difference in d.n.a is greater than we think when we consider that is has resulted in us creating civilisation, developing technology and developing knowledge of science where chimps are swinging in the trees!

Our behaviour also differs from them in many ways, e.g. the vocal communicative and strong pair bonding behaviour of humans is more like that of some birds than that of apes. We blindly see ourselves in apes but dont realise just how different we are from these creatures.

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"If you know the candle is fire then the meal was cooked a long time ago"
 43yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that Ironwood is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
I don't see violence as a differentiating factor, as a matter of fact I find such a notion silly.

Strong pair bonding, a romantic notion that at its roots has little solid basis, and comes from male dominated societies that allowed men and or women to even kill or beat cheating spouses, a human made rule because so many do. Not to mention basic divorce. which in some societies past and present simply isn't allowed, which isn't a sign of strong pair bonding but pair enforcement, then there are the oh so popular arranged unions, especially political that spit in the very face of any romantic notions.

All animal behavior is closely linked to us. Between procreation, individual, and group/social/specie survival most behavior of all creatures is nearly identical with mild variations.

Vocal communications of animals are not understood and cannot be properly compared, all known animals communicate to eachother in one form or another, most use a wide variety of a mix of body language and sounds.

As for building more complex structures and technology, other creatures with brain sizes more relatable to our own simply do not have the means, like dolphins. Tiny brained birds even weave homes, and ants and other insects create massive structures above and below ground.

And then there is the point that animals would probably be less likely to abuse their natural resources and habitats as badly as we do poisoning their own food and water supplies and destroying the very earth they call home. Which is probably our greatest difference, that we are far more destructive (in all our constructiveness) to all things including ourselves.

But if you feel that is a sign of superior intellect, well, every one has a right to their opinion.

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"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"
 39yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Rajpal is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
I appreciate your reply leftwood but you seem to have strayed away from the topic that i put forward regarding our bias towards chimps being very close to us. You seem to have gone into a somewhat philosphical strop regarding how humans are more destructive and the flaws within our general social standards and practices-

e.g. "Strong pair bonding, a romantic notion that at its roots has little solid basis, and comes from male dominated societies that allowed men and or women to even kill or beat cheating spouses, a human made rule because so many do. Not to mention basic divorce. which in some societies past and present simply isn't allowed, which isn't a sign of strong pair bonding but pair enforcement, then there are the oh so popular arranged unions, especially political that spit in the very face of any romantic notions".
- I AM WELL AWARE OF ALL THESE FACTORS IN HUMAN SOCIETY, I AM TALKING ABOUT THE "BASIC NOTION OF HUMAN PAIR BONDING" - AND ITS PARRALLELS IN THE ANIMAL KINGDOM (HENCE OUR "SIMILARITY" WITH NATURE NOT OUR DIFFERENCE) AND NOT THE FLAWS AND HYPOCRACY OF HUMAN SOCIETY WITH REGARD TO IT!!!

as you said -
"Strong pair bonding, a romantic notion that at its roots has little solid basis".
In my opinion, "Strong pair bonding" is the idea of two individuals establishing a close (strong) relationship with one another by their own will/desire only and remaining together (devoted to one another only) for life. This is what i meant leftwood!
I understand and agree with you that this is an idealsitic concept and often doesnt work as you mensioned in human society but im not talking about our flaws as humans.

You said earlier -
"All animal behavior is closely linked to us. Between procreation, individual, and group/social/specie survival most behavior of all creatures is nearly identical with mild variations." - WHAT IVE BEEN TRYING TO SAY IS THAT PEOPLE HAVE CREATED A BIASED TOWARDS CHIMPS BASED ON GENETIC AND BEHAVIOURAL DISPLAY IN CAPTIVITY AND THAT WE HUMANS ARE MUCH MORE LIKE MOST ANIMALS IN MANY WAYS (NOT JUST CHIMPS ! ) hence you indirectly agreed with me without realising it!

Regarding your comment on animal brain size -
"As for building more complex structures and technology, other creatures with brain sizes more relatable to our own simply do not have the means, like dolphins. Tiny brained birds even weave homes, and ants and other insects create massive structures above and below ground". - I ALSO AGREE WITH YOU HERE - ANIMALS ARE CAPABLE OF INTELLIGENCE - I HAVE STUDIED WILDLIFE A GREAT DEAL AND HENCE HAVE LEARNED SO - ONCE AGAIN YOU HAVE MISSINTERPRETED THIS TOPIC - MY POINT WAS TO SHOW THAT THE HUMAN OBSESSION WITH THE IDEA OF CHIMPS BEING VERY CLOSE TO US IS BIASED AND THAT WE ARE MUCH CLOSER TO MOST ANIMALS AND NOT JUST CHIMPS, DESPITE HAVING ONLY 2% DIFFERENCE IN D.N.A WE ARE SIGNIFICANTLY DIFFERENT FROM THEM IN OUR ACHIEVMENTS - THATS ALL!

AS FOR YOUR COMMENT - "Tiny brained birds" - THIS MENTION OF BRAIN SIZE YOU HAVE MADE IS RATHER IGNORANT FOR SOMEONE WHO HAS REGONITION OF ANIMAL INTELLIGENCE - A BIRDS BRAIN MAY NOT BE OF A SIMILAR SIZE TO OURS BUT IN PROPORTION TO ITS OWN BODY SIZE IT MAY BE!
This is what we call brain to body ratio.

Its interesting to note that most birds have a brain to body size ratio similar to that off higher mammals such as cetaceans (whales) and higher primates. some such as RAVENS, CROWS, PARROTS, PINNION JAYS e.t.c show incredible problem solving and deduction capibilities like oursleves - HENCE RETURNING TO THE ORIGINAL POINT OF THIS TOPIC THAT MANY ANIMALS SHARE INTELLECT SIMILAR TO OURSELVES AND THAT CHIMPS ARENT THE ONLY ONES!

IM VERY SORRY THAT MY TOPIC HAS BEEN MISINTERPRETED, DUE TO MISSUSE OF WORDS.

I SAID EARLIER "Our behaviour also differs from them in many ways, e.g. the vocal communicative and strong pair bonding behaviour of humans is more like that of some birds than that of apes. We blindly see ourselves in apes but dont realise just how different we are from these creatures" = I MEANT TO SAY THAT WE ARE SIMILAR TO MOST ANIMALS IN MANY WAYS AND NOT JUST CHIMPS, I ACCIDDENTLY USED DIFFERENTIATION TO TRY AND POINT THIS OUT.


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"If you know the candle is fire then the meal was cooked a long time ago"
 43yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that Ironwood is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
"IM VERY SORRY THAT MY TOPIC HAS BEEN MISINTERPRETED, DUE TO MISSUSE OF WORDS...

I MEANT TO SAY THAT WE ARE SIMILAR TO MOST ANIMALS IN MANY WAYS AND NOT JUST CHIMPS, I ACCIDDENTLY USED DIFFERENTIATION TO TRY AND POINT THIS OUT."

Hey, no problem. It happens. That makes much more sense.

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"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"
[  Edited by Ironwood at   ]
 37yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Wyote is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
quote:
That 2% difference in d.n.a is greater than we think


i laugh at anyone who doesnt think this 2% is huge.

the most important difference in my opinion is the capability of speech (larynx developement) that we have and that they lack. this allows us to perform tasks far beyond any other creature.

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"A loving heart is the beginning of all knowledge. - Thomas Carlyle"
 43yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that Ironwood is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
I laugh at anyone who thinks animals don't speak and otherwise communicate.


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"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"
 37yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Wyote is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
of course nearly every creature has some form of communication. but the larynx (and mouth, tongue ect.) allows us to formulate more sounds than any other creature. it is the most advanced form of communication on earth.

if chimps had a larynx, they may have ended up the dominate species on earth.

dont quote me on this, but i think dolphins have the second most sophisticaed form of communication and they own the ocean. i mean, they can take down sharks for crying out loud

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"A loving heart is the beginning of all knowledge. - Thomas Carlyle"
 43yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that Ironwood is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
That's fine, you mentioned it as a possible of a most important difference, where as I would say that opposable thumbs and higher brain functions, conceptual thinking, are far more important of a distinction that allows us to...

"perform tasks far beyond any other creature."

Though communication is important of course, but communication is more of a interaction tool and vehicle for the conceptual thoughts that come with higher brain functions.

Small brained birds can mimick (sp) most sounds of a human, this has not helped them with much advancement.

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"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"
 37yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Wyote is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
well we are delving in to evolution now and some may agree or disagree with a lot of things in that area. in my personal thinking though, the larynx is responsible for brain growth --> higher functions --> conceptual thinking. the opposable thumb and ability to stand up right have helped a great deal, but i believe the larynx is the true culprit.

actually... the transferrence of speech to written word is what has allowed us to progress leaps and bounds.

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"A loving heart is the beginning of all knowledge. - Thomas Carlyle"
 43yrs • M
A CTL of 1 means that Ironwood is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Ah, so in other words, we're just talking out our butts, hehe.


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"The Greatest Enemy of Knowledge is Not Ignorance, It is the ILLUSION of Knowledge. Stephen Hawking"
 37yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that Wyote is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
as always leftwood, as always.

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"A loving heart is the beginning of all knowledge. - Thomas Carlyle"
 38yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that heyjme1 is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Does anybody have figures fo other animals:

How close does human DNA match (% maybe) to fruit, sheep, goats, rats, bacteria, fish, pigs? lets get this into a perspective and then analyse.

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""No words""
 34yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that summit is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Well, Humans are genetically more closely related to fungi than fungi is to plants

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"The summit is just a halfway point"
[  Edited by summit at   ]
Chimps - are they really that close to us?
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