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Excerp: America is not a Christian Nation - Page 9

User Thread
 56yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that TheIrishPagan is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
We can argue semantics all day, blessings, as used in this context, originate from the divine. Pagans will offer you blessings from our Gods as well.

One arguable word out of the entire document, besides, we have already won in public schools, with the removal of forced prayers, the rest will follow.

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"Oops, it appears I have run over your dogma with my karma."
 56yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that TheIrishPagan is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
'YOU can say we were supposed to be secular... BUT the old old historic buildings with the Ten Commandments show us that history approved of God's laws.'

Please sight examples of these buildings, built as government buildings, original to the late 18th century that contains such materials, and which were not added later.
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'Our currency says "In God we trust."...That wasnt something written recently on money.'

So congress passing the Coinage Act in 1863, when none of our Founders remained alive, is an indication of the Founder's intentions? The fact that it was not officially put on all money, and replaced our original motto in the 1950's is not recent? The 'so help me God' affirmation being added to justice and judge oaths of office being added in that decade is also not recent?
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Our Declaration of Independence ... ENDOWED BY OUR CREATOR.

Once again, the Declaration, as important a document as it is, has zero influence on the laws of this land. It is a Document of Intention aimed at the Christian King of England. Have you read the entire document? And what proof do you require, considering the mountain of evidence against your political theory and opinion?
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'YOU have the right to remove all christian or jewish memorials {WHO apparently dont have rights now...under the new aethiest regime} ...but dont dare take the rights of a minority?'

I am always surprised how Fundamentalists view equality and equal rights. They consider it a fine establishment, until they gain political superiority, then we religious minorities are subjected to greater and greater oppressions. And how can it be an 'Atheist regime', when the politicians that make up the government are religious persons, along with a reported 80% of the population? Apparently you have forgotten, or refuse to see, that it is mostly Christians who are instigating these changes. Also, we are speaking of the removal of all religious memorials/monuments/references from only government property and domain, stay focused. No one is suggesting removing such materials from Church or private property. Also, if the rights of the minority are ignored, then you have tyranny, that which we truly 'fought against' to create this country.
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'WAKE UP PPL...THE VERY THING WE FOUGHT AGAINST WE ARE BECOMING'

You mean England? A country with a state sponsored religion? How about a thoughtful debate, instead of just yelling 'Fire' all the time?


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"Oops, it appears I have run over your dogma with my karma."
 53yrs • F •
A CTL of 1 means that Patrish is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
quote:
We can argue semantics all day, blessings, as used in this context, originate from the divine. Pagans will offer you blessings from our Gods as well.



I am sorry, but dont you see it yet...???

FROM GOD...therefore even IF you claim a false god, it is still a BLESSING from God..or your god..it is still about GOD!!!!

Therefore religion is a very integral part of the history of America, and you cannot disengage that fact.

PERIOD!!!!

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"Life is full of lemons, and the lemonade is sweet."
 56yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that TheIrishPagan is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Trish, who is arguing about the religiousness of our Founders? We were discussing the secular government intentions of our Forefathers, perhaps we should get you some Clonidine to help stay focused? When one looks at the differences in the intentional document, The Declaration of Independence, and the document that forms our Laws, The Constitution, one will notice a complete and glaring lack of religious reference in the latter, which can only be viewed as a secular intention of our government.

'Blessings' in this context refers to those bestowed by Liberty itself, as in the sentence of 'Blessings of God'. If one examines the sentence structure, one can see this...
quote:
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

If they had intended to mention blessings from above, then it would have read something like 'to secure Blessed Liberty', or 'Divine Blessings of Liberty'. People of the time, especially in such important documents, generally wrote in a quite literal fashion. You have an understandably biased mindset, and due to your present religious motivations, will tend to read into such statements as you did. One could just as easily read into the word 'ordain' that all of our Founders were Ministers.

And stop licking me.

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"Oops, it appears I have run over your dogma with my karma."
 61yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that okcitykid is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
quote:
Jesus never said war would end...he said it would always be..and as a matter of fact...GOD uses war as a punishment.....
BY allowing ppl to war...they are punished for iniquities.
AND for pagan practices..BTW.
That depends on whose scriptures you read, the gnostics had a much different take on that.

Do I have to quote Jesus to prove you wrong? You've read his scriptures, he never supported war, he only said that there would be wars. Your own Pope condemned this war. Isn't he like the authority of Peter? Need I say more?

quote:
YOU still see Saddam as the good guy?


So now you bear false witness against me claiming to see inside my heart. May God be your judge.

Let me see - we killed 100,000 Iraqis, injured an un numbered amount, we ourselves lost over 1500 and the injuries are in the 10s of thousand. We've created a tremendous amount of water, air and soil pollution to poison future generations. All of that just to put Saddam into a comfortable cell. You can be proud of that if you like.

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"A fool says I know and a wise man says I wonder."
 53yrs • F •
A CTL of 1 means that Patrish is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
WE killed civilians??

How do you know that...when even Iraq cannot account for IF they are 'civilians' or insurgants whom dress like civilians instead of soldier clothes...
I LOOKED THAT UP ON AN OFFICIAL SITE FOR IRAQ DEATHS...they cannot count the bodies for civilians..because the insurgents DRESS like civilians.

John Paul II knew that THIS holy war could be the end....as per Fatima. {More on that}

However, being that Bush did not go in attacking civilians...but pursuing criminals and capture, then we know we were after Al Queda team leaders.....well most of America understands that.

WAR to kill for the sake of killing is what Bush attempted to avoid..but instead to capture leaders, and free a nation from a tyrant who would not only have Americans dead...and war on our land..... but also a malicious murderer whom kills for the sake of power.

AGAIN..what would you have us do...say we wont do anything..so come on in??

Also, defending a nation is appropriate.

JESUS said wars would come...PERIOD!!
Did he ever denounce those wars...?
NO..He knew the Father would allow for it...and since this war has two GOODS it is not a war of a this nation wanting to capture and pillage...it is self defense COUNTER ATTACK while bringing dignity to THAT nation of innocent lives by the milions being slaughtered...!!

The war has ended..it is the AlQueda who commit suicide bombings on civilians...

OR dont you read the news. The actual war was a success in 2003. April it ended...the rest are terrorists fighting 'democracy'.
Hence a Kurd was voted president.... {Which could be a sign from God as well...since Kurds are at a majority Christian}

ALL news you hear are about the bombings...whom are the bombers??

YOU ignore the clean water..the saving of 60 children a day who died by starvation when the food for oil program was implemented and Saddam 'pocketed' 10 BILLION dollars, in which he built mansions for his sons....

Yes, he took money for food...and left the toll of 60 children PER DAY TO STARVE TO DEATH.

DO you know all children are NOW allowed to attend school now??
And even women are allowed to work now..and attend schooling??

DO you realise the civilians are thrilled and excited about their new lives???

IF this is not a good, I dont know what to tell you.

BUT because Bush was careful, he did this to the best of his ability..and even to date...our own troops still have not even began to cause any amount of collateral damage of lives compared to Saddams' reign.

100,000....of unknown lives if they are truly civilains or insurgents..?

OR millions??

YOU do the math.

O, and while doing the math.....figure out how many american lives have been 'refrained' from being killed.
v
v
v
v
v
v

ONE other thing...according to several apparitions...Fatima, Garabandal, Akita, & Medjugorje we have the option to stay the NUCLEAR ATTACKS if men return to God.
IS THIS OPERATION PART OF STOPPING A NUCLEAR BOMBIMG THAT COULD HAVE DESTROYED 2/3'S OF THE WORLD??
Since she said we could stop this from happening...if ppl return to God..and we have leaders who follow God's laws.

She said leaders must return their nations to God....I can see how GOD used America to aid his innocent lives in Iraq...and free His ppl. He does love them...how does God operate??

He allows wars....BUT especially a war without intent to destroy a nation...BUT BUILD IT BACK UP AND FREE HIS PPL.

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"Life is full of lemons, and the lemonade is sweet."
 56yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that TheIrishPagan is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
I am sure if it were one of your relatives who were killed in Iraq, you would sing a different tune. None of mine have been killed, but I know families who have lost loved ones. What an absurd statement Trish, but one we have come to expect from you, as you twist your scripture to support your intolerant doctrines, death, killing, and murder.

One, we were not asked by the Iraqi people to interfere. Two, we have No Right to interfere with a sovereign nation in this way. Three, the small percentage of the 'Insurgents' killed, in relation to those innocents murdered, will never justify the killing. If just for an example, you round the number of civilians killed out to an even 100,000, even if half of them are combatants, what about the other 50,000 innocent lives, men, women and children? YOU do the math, that's the entire population of Idaho Falls, Idaho. And those same 'Insurgents' would not be killing their own people in such numbers, if we had not interfered in such a militaristic manner. It is no wonder to me that many Islamics, including their Extremists, view our country with trepidation and as a threat to their religion and themselves, specifically the Christian Fundamentalists here.

And you want us non-Christian Fundamentals to let you Fundies take over OUR country? Like hell! If Christian Fundamentalists took over this nation completely, it would quite simply turn into another Fundamentalist country, like Afghanistan for example.


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"Oops, it appears I have run over your dogma with my karma."
 53yrs • F •
A CTL of 1 means that Patrish is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
quote:
We were discussing the secular government intentions of our Forefathers


DO you know what secular means?? OR is it just a word you like.
Secular means worldly cares...
I quoted where they were Christian...but because they said Blessings...you twist it...

AND The Declaration is glaringly obvious...
'Endowed by Our Creator"

ANYWAY...LOL...

quote:
One, we were not asked by the Iraqi people to interfere. Two, we have No Right to interfere with a sovereign nation in this way. Three, the small percentage of the 'Insurgents' killed, in relation to those innocents murdered, will never justify the killing.


Gees...perhaps the Desert Storm after effects DID NOT matter to you..eh?
IRAQI'S FOUGHT SIDE BY SIDE WITH AMERICANS...what happened to them...??
They were stood to watch their children die in a line up...and family members were also murdered in front of them...and then they were also lined up and murdered.

Tell me....would you make a sound against saddam???
Just because they prayed for their freedom...doesnt mean it wasnt asked for.

Their actions show their happiness. MC my friend over there says they kiss the boots of the troops...in complete happiness.
HE said seeing them rejoice and the children come to them...means the world to HIM..even tho this nation doesnt care about those ppl...our troops do.

NUMBER ONE.....OUR TROOPS ARE NOT OUT ATTACKING.
The murdered civilains are those killed BY insurgents.

AND in addition...I READ A SITE LOOKING FOR CIVILAINS DEATHS...AN OFFICIAL SITE FOR IRAQI'S....AND THEY CANNOT GIVE AN ACCURATE ACCOUNT BECAUSE INSURGENTS ARE DRESSED LIKE CIVILAINS...

Therefore they said the number is not a definite...and they have NOT kept record for the most part...

ALL you have are the words of liberals Blogs...and they dont lie..do they?

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"Life is full of lemons, and the lemonade is sweet."
 61yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that okcitykid is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Jesus did say there would be wars period. and he further explained.

quote:
Blessed are the peacemakers; they shall be called the children of God


Ofcourse there will be wars, because how can you have peace makers if you don't have wars.

Aren't Christians the children of God? Aren't peace makers the children of God? What are you?

The Pope however is a child of God - he was against the war, period.

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"A fool says I know and a wise man says I wonder."
 53yrs • F •
A CTL of 1 means that Patrish is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
Blessed are they who hunger and thirst for justice, for they shall be satisfied.

Blessed are they who suffer persecution for justice' sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.


SO...for each person and personality there is a reward whom follow God.


St Luke 22, 36

22:35 When I sent you without purse and scrip and shoes, did you want anything?

22:36 But they said: Nothing. Then said he unto them: But now he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise a scrip: and he that hath not, let him sell his coat and buy a sword.

And Jesus said...he brought division.

When He said to Peter to put away the sword...He was referring to Peter ATTACKING...
BUT the verse I quoted meant...IN time would be a time of defense.

So....you can skip ALL those quotes....its ok.
And John Paul II did not agree with the war...but he led as an example...
AND this war was not by intent by America....to attack, but to defend.
Bush spoke with the Pope...and I am sure the Pope prayed over this being a mild quick war...and it was.

AND the ppl are happy....and the Pope also loved the Muslims...and he therefore prayed for them to be free.

YOU only know what ya want....to see.

YOU can ignore the defensiveness..YOU can ignore the plight of the Muslims...and you can claim that
"Live and let be" or you choose...
"Live and help live"

Faith is dead without works...
"Feed the poor"
ANd so we are.

I also have a friend promising me when her brother comes next week from Iraq, he will speak to us...
AND she said, he has seen the gratitude..and the ppl bringing gifts... altho he cannot accept them...THEY are beside themselves for God hearing their plight.

THINK about it....do YOU care about what the good has been done by taking down a tyrant.

YOU ignore the peace this action has created as an end result for the MAJORITY.

The only ppl you listen to are EXTREMISTS...WHO ARE FILLED WITH HATE TO BEGIN WITH.



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"Life is full of lemons, and the lemonade is sweet."
 61yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that okcitykid is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
What were we defending Patrish - Our oil rights?


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"A fool says I know and a wise man says I wonder."
 53yrs • F •
A CTL of 1 means that Patrish is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
How about the lives of more American children..or women...or innocent civilians??

AND the lives of the Iraqi Children....is that sufficient enough for you??

OIL??
That has been prooven wrong...because IF we had the rights...we wouldnt be paying these high prices.

PLUS one guy I met talked to me...he was liberal...he was told also this was about oil...but was amazed at the error of that when he discovered upon return we have NO hold on oil, or it the high costs.

keep on keeping on....

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"Life is full of lemons, and the lemonade is sweet."
 56yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that TheIrishPagan is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
I am quite aware of the definition of secular thank you. In the case of a government, secular indicate that its policies and agendas do not support any one religion at all, as opposed to a state sponsored religion, which has occurred. And once again, the Declaration has NO bearing on the laws of this land. I would like you to explain then the 'Tripoli Treaty', Article 11, which was written and signed by the same men who founded this country. There is simply no way to 'twist' the meaning of 'As the Government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion-...'
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'How about the lives of more American children..or women...or innocent civilians??'

So the Iraqi citizens were responsible for the 9/11 attacks? Have we killed enough Iraqi's to satisfy your bloodlust? Is this part of that whole 'eye for an eye' idiom? Oh wait, they are heathens and heretics, so it doesn't really matter if they die. Sure, Saddam, who was on his way out anyways, would have been pissed if we managed to locate some training bases in his country, then bomb those bases into oblivion. But many would have thought that much more appropriate, instead of involving those innocents you seem to have forgotten. In my opinion, such a surgical strike would have sent a clear message to terrorists. One that states, 'No matter where you hide, we will find you.' It would also have cost no American Soldiers, or non-combatant, their lives. This would also have not caused insurgents to 'defend their country' from the US invasion.
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'THINK about it....do YOU care about what the good has been done by taking down a tyrant... YOU ignore the peace this action has created as an end result for the MAJORITY.'

The end does not always justify the means, the deaths of innocent Iraqi women and children, and the deaths of our sons and daughters, caused by our militaristic interference simply cannot justify our take over of that country. Again, the United States has No Right interfering with a sovereign nation. What about the genocides, slavery, and starvation in other countries, are we supposed to go into those countries as well and take over? And I see the original intent of this invasion has been lost, what ever happened to the WMD that supposedly supported and motivated the President's war agenda in the first place, you know, the WMD we never found?
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'The only ppl you listen to are EXTREMISTS...WHO ARE FILLED WITH HATE TO BEGIN WITH.'

One should not cast stones in a glass house. You forward the agenda of people you yourself have called Extremists. Merely terming them, and yourself, 'filled with the love of God' does not negate the evils of the hate filled doctrines they, and you, would have this country enslaved under. Islamic Extremists justify themselves in the same manner that you do dear, only in a different language and dedicated to a different God, perhaps you should examine closely your own motivations. Their motivations are simple enough, they feel threatened by Fundamental Christianity, and at the moment in their views, the US embodies that mindset.

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"Oops, it appears I have run over your dogma with my karma."
 61yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that okcitykid is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
quote:
That has been prooven wrong...because IF we had the rights...we wouldnt be paying these high prices.


There not doing much drilling or oil pumping these days in Iraq, and when they get the oil flowing, someone blows up the pipe. Somebody forgot to tell them that the war was over. I think Mr. Bush should go right over there and tell them to stop because its over and we won, so we can get that oil out of there and get the prices back down.

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"A fool says I know and a wise man says I wonder."
 61yrs • M •
A CTL of 1 means that okcitykid is a contributing member of Captain Cynic.
but seriously - The oil kings want the oil prices to be high, they make a lot more money that way, and if we hadn't gone to Iraq, the oil prices would have remained the same. If you just think about, you can figure this whole thing out, it's not difficult. The Iraq conflict creates a tremendous amount of money, for the Bush family, the friends of the Bush family, mainly Sadia Arabia.

But you can continue being naive, but the Pope was not so naive, you best better better follow his que.

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"A fool says I know and a wise man says I wonder."
Excerp: America is not a Christian Nation - Page 9
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