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Legitimacy of Iraq War: US dollar verus the Euro

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2811 Posts / 89M
     :   28yrs   :  
Decius

Legitimacy of Iraq War: US dollar verus the Euro [+ favourites]

I was at a friend's place yesterday and we were discussing the election and the war over a few glasses of absinthe while eating Chinese food.

He brought up a point I had never heard of before. I did some research and it makes quite a bit of sense. I'll try to summarize my findings as best I can:

When you think of the Iraqi conflict, you either believe that Bush is just "crazy", or that we went there for legitimate purposes to free Iraqi people, or that we went there to protect ourselves from being attacked.

The problem with any of these points of views is that none of them adequately coincide with any event.

What I mean by that is that if you believe we went there to free Iraqis, there is no logical reason why we went there when we did. Iraqis have been suffering for years.

If you believe we went there to protect ourselves, there is no logical reson why we would have targeted Iraq because there are no ties between Iraq and terrorism.

If you believe we went there because Bush is a saddistic loon, well, that also would have been consistent before 9/11, so there is no reason why the war would have begun in 2003.

Although there may be other reasons why you support or oppose the war in Iraq, I have yet to encounter anyone in either view that provided me with a premise behind why it happened when it happened, with more of a premise than their opinion or assumptions.

So here's an interesting fact:

In November, 2000, Iraq began selling its oil in EUROs, becoming the first OPEC country to abandon its ties to the US dollar.

What significance does this hold?

In simple macroeconomics, we understand that a country's dollar value is determined by the level of demand that exists for that currency. For example... if a country prints too many dollar bills and opens them up to the public via grants, higher interest rates, or by feeding the economy by hiring local companies, it floods the market with more of its currency. As with anything in business, the more supply there is, the less demand there is, hence the value of the dollar goes down.

As the value of the dollar goes down, the governmental body that controlls a majority of the money, the interest rates, and the currency loses power, because the value of that money becomes less and less.

Well, on January 1st, 1999, 11 European countries joined together to form a joint currency called the EURO. Britain and Norway were two that were absent from this union of currency, and still trade using their own currencies.

These 11 countries were: AUSTRIA BELGIUM FINLAND FRANCE GERMANY GREECE IRELAND ITALY LUXEMBOURG NETHERLANDS PORTUGAL SPAIN .

The EURO is valued at approximately $1.30US as of today.

Back to oil.

Right now Saudi Arabia and Iraq are two of the largest oil producers on the planet. Prior to the 2000 change to EUROs by Iraq, most of the oil on the planet was purchased in US dollars, as 2/3rds of the commonly traded currency in the world is US dollars. This is called a "Reserve Currency".

It is widely known and accepted that the US has struck a deal with the Saudis which provides them with US support in the Middle East, in exchange for their continued support of the US dollar by selling their oil in only US dollars. Iraq also promoted the value of the US dollar by selling their oil in that currency, but decided to sell their oil in only EUROs in 2000.

What did that mean for the US dollar?

Well, what that means if you've been following me this far is that the demand for the US dollar would drop internationally, as many countries that obtained oil from Iraq would no longer convert their currency to US currency to obtain it. Instead, they would boost the demand for EUROs by purchasing EUROs.

This would benefit all the European countries utilizing the EURO, and affect the US dollar in a negative way. This is why it was countries like France, Germany and Russia that pressured Saddam Hussein into changing Iraq's trade currency.

Back to November 2000. So Iraq becomes the first large oil supplier in the world to begin trading in the EURO versus the US dollar. This, in itself, did not dramatically affect the value of the EURO or the US dollar. However, almost immediately following it other oil producing countries began toying with the possibility of following suit. Oil producing countries such as Iran, Libya, Venezuela, Russia, Indonesia, and Malaysia all began trading oil in EUROs, thereby pushing it to become the world's second "Reserve Currency".

The repercussions of such a domino effect would effectively reduce the value of the US dollar by 20 to 40 percent vs the EURO, likely making the EURO at least equal to the dollar as a "Reserve Currency".

Following 9/11 and the incomplete invasion of Afghanistan, the US quickly proceeded to invade Iraq, the only OPEC country in the world to defy the US dollar. Their coalition of forces included England and Norway, two of the main European countries that did not partake in joining with the EURO. Of the 11 countries that were trading using the EURO, only Italy, Portugal, Spain, and the Netherlands took part.

On the other side, France, Germany, Russia and China opposed the war, amongst others. France and Germany mainly because their currency was being threatened, and China and Russia because they also converted a substantial portion of their dollar reserves to EUROs.

The US gained a few things by invading and occupying Iraq. Firstly, they sent a message to any OPEC countries that attempted to switch to the EURO, thereby devaluating the US dollar. Secondly, they now controlled the world's second largest oil supply. Thirdly, they almost immediately began trading in, yes you guessed it, US dollars, thereby maintaining its demand. Fourthly, they now have a military presence in the center of the Middle East. Fifthly, they struck a blow against the EURO, the main competitor to the US dollar.

It is theorized that if the Iraq war did not take place, and more oil producing countries switched to the EURO, the US dollar would crash, thereby causing a literal catastrophe in the US economy.

This entire underlying purpose to the war in Iraq is not televised, nor is it well known amongst pro-war or anti-war enthusiasts, likely because it is the most honest and real perception of the events that have unfolded in the middle east in the last few years.

It is important to note that almost every country that had a strong interest in boosting the EURO opposed the war, and every country that had a strong interest in preserving the US dollar supported the war. Also important is the fact that the US abandoned the invasion of Afghanistan prematurely to focus on Iraq, certifying that Afghanistan was the foot in the door, but not the true purpose. It is also important to note that it was the European countries that pressured Saddam into dropping the US dollar in favour of EUROs. Finally, it is important to note that Iraq was the first country to drop the US dollar in favour of the EURO, only a year before the "War on Terrorism" began.

Interestingly enough, it is agreed upon by all parties involved that a "War on Terrorism" will never truly be finished, and that it is a very indefinite and lengthy process, as stated by the president himself. This does adequately permit the US government to protect the US dollar wherever it may be threatened, under the guise of terrorism for legitimacy and public support.


"Hating everyone protects me from elitism."

1669 Posts / 59M
     :   21yrs   :  
Angelfire

Bush's argument (however fallacious) is that 9/11 made the administration realise that to protect America, it was necessary to destroy threats before they fully materialize.

Hence, the invasion occured after 9/11 and before Saddam was truly dangerous.


"Durch Nacht und Blut das Licht"

SITE ADMIN
2811 Posts / 89M
     :   28yrs   :  
Decius

Please take the time to read the whole post, even though it may be long. I did write it all.


"Hating everyone protects me from elitism."

AUTHOR
296 Posts / 46M
     :   22yrs   :  
Astarte

Oh my.
Conspiracy theories are so hot, but yours isn't really a conspiracy theory because it can and was pretty much proved a point. I learned something tonight too, which is cool, I hadn't thought about the Euros before so kudos to you..HOWEVER, I'm sorry. I really can't just fully agree with anything that is presented to me.

I disagree that this was the sole reason for the Iraq War because, I, too have theories of my own that if I wasn't so sick and tired of writing pointless political essays, would present to everyone here. Maybe I'll just cut a long story short, we'll see as my post progresses..

Two points caught my eye:

1)" If you believe we went there because Bush is a saddistic loon, well, that also would have been consistent before 9/11, so there is no reason why the war would have begun in 2003. "
Correction: he WAS a sadistic loon prior to 9/11, but making insane excutive choices in other departments and fileds. Military force was not needed at the time, it was after 9/11 that the concern of the country's security was pretty much thrown on the table - even if North Korea was being a ninny bitch before that. So I don't agree that you can't criticize Bush for making unccessary and dangerous choices as a result of 9/11 - however, the specificity in which he chose Afghanistan and Iraq is a different question, which is why this article was interesting to read.


2) "It is theorized that if the Iraq war did not take place, and more oil producing countries switched to the EURO, the US dollar would crash, thereby causing a literal catastrophe in the US economy.

This entire underlying purpose to the war in Iraq is not televised, nor is it well known amongst pro-war or anti-war enthusiasts, likely because it is the most honest and real perception of the events that have unfolded in the middle east in the last few years."

Correct, but I don't want to jump to conclusions and say that you are declaring it was ONLY this purpose. Which leads me ot my unfinished tangent from before - that there were a couple factors why Saddam made a wonderful choice to focus on as military action was pending in Bush's head, and honestly, not his. I don't even think we should blame Bush - he was a puppet of his cabinet. Someone smart had to figure out that this would be a great time to eliminate the possible financial and political threat of Iraq, not Bush.

Anyway, I also believe this has quite a bit to do with Israel. I'm not going to say I believe that bullshit about Israel being behind 9/11 - but let me tell you, because Iraq was also like the North Korea of OPEC - it had nothing to lose if it wanted to pay suicide bombers' families millions to cause problems for the Israeli government. Saddam was the burning fire under the Palestinian terrorist groups - where the hell do you think they were getting a steady flow of income? I think Iraq was a big player, and it amused Saddam so because everyone hates Israel there - the other nations just don't openly declare that because they have financial risks in doing so. Israel, I could say historically and informally, is the bastard child of the UK and US. Bevin left Israel's mandate and "freed" Britain of its responsibility of the illegal immigration and growing Palestinan upset - but that's what Britain's known to do historically.

If shit hits the fan, Victoria runs off. If you look at all the regions of the world once under colonization of Britain, you'll see a lot of ethnic and political shit. South Africa and the apartheid, India, Pakistan and Jammu/Kashmir, the list goes on. So naturally, the Zionists run to Truman after the UK had enough and every since the US has become responsible for Israel - reluctantly, which is never openly accepted but true. The Irgun, a Zionist terrorist organization during that time, drew the last straw for the UK with the infamous King David Hotel attack that killed scores.

If someone disagrees, I'll start pulling resources out of my ass to convince you otherwise. I've studied this shit and wrote too many essays on the schematics behind Israel.

So anyway, along comes Suddam Hussein who has nothing to lose and loves shooting scud missiles as Israel at any moment he's given. So what do you do, as the US? You get rid of him. Along with the incentives of OPEC and the Euro causing a threat, it's the perfect target.

And I'm done.
I haven't had a day where I could just talk about stupid shit like..football.


"Milk, almonds and pistachios."

1669 Posts / 59M
     :   21yrs   :  
Angelfire

I have read your post, it may be one of the reasons. To say it is the main reason is in the realm of rabidly anti-Bush liberal conspiracy theory.

Frivolous.


"Durch Nacht und Blut das Licht"

AUTHOR
296 Posts / 46M
     :   22yrs   :  
Astarte

It's not a conspiracy theory if the economics and facts he was discussing make sense.

Conspiracy theories are like..throwing all this random shit together with no evidence that it would be true. Blaming Israelis for 9/11, for instance, just because they are associated with Arab conflict and it was supposed to be their ultimate revenge against Muslims or something.

He actually brought up some situations directly affecting this entire war situation - and that were overlooked, as he mentioned.


"Milk, almonds and pistachios."

SITE ADMIN
2811 Posts / 89M
     :   28yrs   :  
Decius

As economics, the time frame, and the actions indicated, this is very likely one of the central reasons behind the Iraqi conflict. I am quite certain that in time, this will unveil itself further and become more televised as more and more people research and grasp it.

Fortunately, it is neither a conservative nor a liberal approach: it is simply imperialism of the US dollar, which is required to maintain the US economy, which is quite an important part of almost everything we see and hear.


"Hating everyone protects me from elitism."

230 Posts / 45M
     :   24yrs   :  
iSOUGHT|THOUGHT

one mark for bush that i have heard people giving out in his support spoke of "how well bush did at stimulating the economy after the market crash"

for the economy to fall victim to another one (from what decius said, i imply it would have been much more devestating), bush would be up a shit creek and without a paddle... (Git'r Dun George) LMAO

who's #1

capitalism is fucking dandy

btw, thanks for that insight decius / 2 thumbs, way up


"as i see it the only "variable" in the equation is THOUGHT. you are capable of changing this and this alone."

1669 Posts / 59M
     :   21yrs   :  
Angelfire

This is very speculative Decius. Just because a rogue regime which can't even sell its oil switches to Euros doesn't the mean the US dollar and economy explode.


"Durch Nacht und Blut das Licht"

AUTHOR
296 Posts / 46M
     :   22yrs   :  
Astarte

Erm babe..

Have you taken macroeconomics yet?
I highly suggest it.


"Milk, almonds and pistachios."

230 Posts / 45M
     :   24yrs   :  
iSOUGHT|THOUGHT

so are you saying that only a small dent would be made... when weighed out with the majority of factors concerning macroeconomics.

what about that huge national debt... all that jazz they keep throwing around about social security problems... (someone more well versed in politics fill in some blanks for me ) that might lend to those scales to tip where we never expected.

besides, the majority of my political knowledge comes from reputable sources like FOX and others like it. outta get me a long way in discussions like these


"as i see it the only "variable" in the equation is THOUGHT. you are capable of changing this and this alone."

SITE ADMIN
2811 Posts / 89M
     :   28yrs   :  
Decius

The key to remember isn't that Iraq contributed to a fall in the value of the US dollar.

It's that it was the initial OPEC nation to switch to the EURO. As stated, if other countries followed suit, there would have most definitely been a dramatic drop in the value of the dollar.

This was an example invasion. Iran, right next to Iraq, with lots of oil, still trades in US dollars.

And you can bet they will for the next four years.


"Hating everyone protects me from elitism."

Legitimacy of Iraq War: US dollar verus the Euro
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