Hello from the Middle East

"Thanks for stating the obvious."
If its so obvious take it into account. If soldiers start thinking when they're not supposed too, the military can't do what its made for. Your suggestion thus becomes pointless.

Em - Its the army, some danger is necessary. Of course there are some limits, torture being one of them. But I maintain that if the soldier wanted to think about legitimacy of his fight, and the legitimacy of his orders, he should have done that before joining.

"Durch Nacht und Blut das Licht"

Keep safe BMX.

*Edit*Forget about the stuff I deleted... I don't know why I bothered.

"If the opposite of Pro is Con, then is the opposite of Progress, Congress?"
[  Edited by Dugbug at   ]

How is it that this is getting twisted so???

Decius - you called BMX a baby killer. He has not killed any babies, he has not been asked to kill any babies. He simply explained that he almost fired upon a child after being fired upon himself, explaining that it could have happened by accident and that he did not think it was fair that our troops in the field should be called baby killers. And you Decius called BMX a baby killer.

You're Wrong Decius and you should apologize, but you're not man enough to apologize, so instead you're going to twist this whole thing around. Meditate on it.

BMX is not a baby killer. I imagine if he was asked to kill a baby, he would dissagree. So why are we calling him a baby killer?

"A fool says I know and a wise man says I wonder."

Okcitykid> You should not take offense to what I have stated because the fallacy in your thinking is that you are somehow related to BMX because he is a soldier, and you were one.

I have debated BMX in the past (which influences my responses here) and he has demonstrated little to no understanding of this war, and constantly flaunts this "gung-ho" pro-army mentality.

This is why I call him a baby killer, because such unaware behaviour is extremely dangerous when you are permitted to carry a gun.

I am man enough to appologize (and have done so to numerous members of this site), but do not feel obligated to pacify the feelings of someone who now carries a gun meant to kill people and has little to no understanding of why he is carrying it.

Furthermore, i am not aware if you were conscripted or not when you served, but I would never call a soldier a baby killer, or any other foul mouthed phrase unless I knew the nature of their mentality.

I have at least three friends online who have served and an ex-marine who is a friend of mine in town, and do not criticize them for their actions, because they seek to be aware.

Dug> As do I. Normandy had nothing to do with Iraq.

DT> "he should have done that before joining" - Agreed. Since the war is shit and the orders come from higher up, and the higher ups are shit, volunteering to tote a gun around in Iraq means you choose to kill for the wrong reasons. OR... you did not have enough information. Either way, you should not be carrying a gun in Iraq. If you do not know why you are there, or believe you are there for the wrong reasons, you are a hired thug.

The day and age when soldiers were revered for their valiant courage died with Vietnam, when faith in the politicians was shattered. Now, you must go in with all eyes open, aware of the government that is sending you to kill.

If you do not, (which BMX obviously hasn't... because he's there), you are a threat to every person around you, including civilians, including babies.

"Hating everyone protects me from elitism."

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urthermore, i am not aware if you were conscripted or not when you served, but I would never call a soldier a baby killer, or any other foul mouthed phrase unless I knew the nature of their mentality.

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Rebel Shi'ite cleric Moqtada al-Sadr has ordered his militia to end attacks on U.S. and Iraqi government forces

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"A fool says I know and a wise man says I wonder."

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Thankyou - It did kind of threw me by suprise -

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But I maintain that if the soldier wanted to think about legitimacy of his fight, and the legitimacy of his orders, he should have done that before joining.

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"Terrorist or tyrant, few may come to the Truth that both are poor choice."

"Either way, you should not be carrying a gun in Iraq. If you do not know why you are there, or believe you are there for the wrong reasons, you are a hired thug."
But not everyone here thinks American boys are out there to fuck over the Iraqis.

"Durch Nacht und Blut das Licht"

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The Main goal for us coming here in the 1st place was to free the Iraqi people from the Oppression being imposed by Saddam. That I supported, i dont believe we came here for oil like most people believe.

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Same with Afghanistan, to free the people from Taliban oppression.

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i dont believe we came here for oil like most people believe.

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"Terrorist or tyrant, few may come to the Truth that both are poor choice."

I'm glad that you're getting some appreciation from Iraqis. I'm not there, but I've been visiting Iraqi.net. It's a pretty evenly mixed bag. Some really hate us, and some really do love us. Fundamentalists always tend to be very dramatic. A statue is being shipped to the states done up by an Iraqi Artist and it portrays a U.S. Marine knelling down in prayer. Very nice indeed. I would hope that after we leave, those who do love us will convince those who hate us to change their mind, but I doubt it. Some will disagree with me, but I've studied it, and according to their religion we are bad guys, and they are a very religious people.

BMX - I am against the war, have been since before it started. But - I know YOU HAVE TO BELIEVE IN IT. Otherwise you will not be able to do your job safely. So you believe in yourself, believe in what you are doing, watch your back and stay safe. When you get home and the dust settles, then we can logically sit down and talk about whether it was right or wrong.

"A fool says I know and a wise man says I wonder."