The meaning of democracy

Teen, what I am saying that democracy is the right of the people to decide, in this case by voting. One person, one vote the senate is a counter-balance in our system, so no the senate is not a democratic institution in that sense. If EU were to take the popular vote of the representative in each nation which then was used to form the overall EU vote, then it would be purer form of democracracy. But as you stated

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For Europe we need a government by the peopleS for the peopleS which is why I think its going to be messy

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"Terrorist or tyrant, few may come to the Truth that both are poor choice."

U most be looking for a one world dem gov.

Yes I do the voting, but I don't pay for the lobbyist. Those who pay a lot of money for lobbyist make my vote worthless when they the lobbyist have more influence then I the voter. It is then a nation by the capitalist for capitalists.

"A fool says I know and a wise man says I wonder."

Our system isn't a pure democracy, we vote for candidates who are suppose to represent the people. If they fell to fulfill our wishes then we may choose another. Is this democracy?
Why did a group of people (caffine addicts) dress to conform to a minority appearence boarding ships in the harbor to demostrate against the Tea Tax? Did they not seek the right to be part of the process which formed and decided what laws should provide?
The popular vote is in support of a candidate? Is it in support of a political party? The people vote in (areas of poplation) blocks, each block is alloted electorial votes. Neither the electorial nor the candidate are required to vote in accordence with the individuals which they represent?
Congress, the law making body is composed of two branches; the Senate: two (votes) senators, who represent the states rights?
the House: # of representatives determined by population, who represent the people within their block?
Is this Democracy?
If you say yes then you will be glad to know that this system is at the state level an to some extent local as well.
The bad news is that it may sound good in theory, the practical application does not secure the consensous of the people and therefore theirs rights become secondary to the process of law making.

"Terrorist or tyrant, few may come to the Truth that both are poor choice."

We are a republic. What this means is that minorities have rights that the majority can't take away (our constitution). India has a pure form of democracy. Minorities have no rights!
Eldred
PS I'll stick with our form of democracy!

Yes your are right, we are a republic! We were discussing democracy or more to the point 'what democracy means'?
Does voting on a candidate equate to democracy? . . . I remember something in the resent news about some Iranian Offical threaten to resign because of undo religious influence?
The Slogon 'No Taxation without Representation' would seem to imply the desire to have vioce in setting tax rate? Perhaps approve the use of collected taxes? Have a deciding voice in 'these kinds of affairs'?

"Terrorist or tyrant, few may come to the Truth that both are poor choice."
[  Edited by cturtle at   ]

Have you ever checked out any other form of politics? capitalist and socialist ideas are not the only one. Narrow political scope means we would just keep the same debate forever.

sorry NothingRea, the discussion here was an extention of another thread dealing with the idea that USA was securing Iraq to form a democracy. which lead to a discussion about 'what is a democracy' as their are those who think that means we should force them to accept our (US) form of capitalism.

"Terrorist or tyrant, few may come to the Truth that both are poor choice."

But is it morally correct to impose an idea on another country?
What we might find unacceptable in our culture might be there normal in there’s.
Il give you an example of what I mean, there is a tribe in northern Alaska called the Inuit’s females give birth to a number of Inuit’s siblings, but if at birth the mother does believe the child will become strong she will kill him.
Now our first impression would be oh my God how could she do such a thing in our society that is the worst crime a person can commit.
But how ever much you would like to disagree with there culture it does have some logic behind it, because the conditions are so harsh the child would have a hard time to survive.

"There is no evil in an atom but in mens souls."

A true democracy doesnt just lie in media i also think the public have an effect on a True democracy.
I do have respect for those who chose not to vote as a political statement but for the majority of the non voters whom are simply not bothered to vote or have no political interests do have a major impact on that country.
Having a low election turnout could be used in an argument that suggests a flaw in democracy. How so? You might ask. I don’t believe that we can leave this discussion by saying the chance to vote is there, it is your decisions weather you take it or not.
Imagine it was Election Day tomorrow and no one showed up there was a 0% turnout.
Do we look at each other and tell our selves the chance was there? Or will the government introduce new laws that make voting compulsory. My example may seem unrealistic but it’s funny to think of what the consequences would be. The government accept the fact that a minority don’t turn up to vote but I am uncertain if they would look at it the same way when everyone doesn’t vote.
My second argument is how elected governments can honestly say that they speak for the majority when 15-20% of the population didn’t even vote.
It is incredibly hard to believe that the non voters (citizens of the country) are in a way disregarded in the views and opinions although they chose not to vote they are still citizens and weather they like it or not are apart of the country they claim to call home.

"There is no evil in an atom but in mens souls."

Hmm . . . so our democracy has come to the point that people no longer bother to vote
Why vote if your voting only serves to justify an illusion

"Terrorist or tyrant, few may come to the Truth that both are poor choice."

A true democracy is a form of government in which all people participate in making all the rules. This is only plausible for a small group of people (very small) and is not used in any nation (in my understanding). Most democratic nations today rely on the understanding that they are a watered down democracy, somewhat of a repulic in most cases, only because is logical to do so, with the understanding that government is only to protect the people it governs.

For another thread I was looking up a word when I noticed another definition.
fascist: 1) a person who believes in fascism 2) a member of a fascist movement or party 3) a person who is dictatorial or has an extreme right-wing views.
mercantilism: 1) an economic and political policy, evolving with the modern nation-state, in which a government regulated the national economy with a view to the accumulation of gold & silver
. . . ie wealth

"Terrorist or tyrant, few may come to the Truth that both are poor choice."

We are a Democracy by representation, but we just say democracy for short.

The change happened according to some is when a corporation or industrie was designated an entity and awarded rights under the constitution and I was told that this happened during slavery days inorder to make it legal. When they abolished slavery however they didn't reverse the change.

Before that time big business would have to pay mighty taxes for the privilage of doing business and they were accountable to the community and all business dealing had to be made public.

"A fool says I know and a wise man says I wonder."

well, I don't know about that just look at industrial waste & disposal (toxic & otherwise)?
Of course, waste is a wide spread issue in an disposable society like ours.

"Terrorist or tyrant, few may come to the Truth that both are poor choice."

If big business wasn't protected as a private citizen, they would be required to inform the public about the waste, ask permission to dump it and possibly pay disposal fees.

But as a citizen they have the right to privacy so we can't know what they are doing and they have rights to all public lands as we, so they can dump all they want until someone complains.

Key is though we have to find out first and then complain, in the meantime, lots of damage has been done and the tax payers will have to foot the bill for it.

"A fool says I know and a wise man says I wonder."