The Acceptance of Bullshit

The Acceptance of Bullshit [+ favourites]

I only want honest answers in this thread.

At what age (or perhaps in the future, or never) did you put necessity for survival above your morals and values?

Let me disclaim all the bullshit answers by saying that just because your values coincide with your actions now, that does not mean you did not sacrifice them originally. This just means you naturally succumbed to necessity and altered your values.

So a good way to examine when and why this happened is to try to think back to when your values changed from being idealistic to what they are now.

"Hating everyone protects me from elitism."

Excellent, its not something people like to talk about.
My change into the cynical, pragmatic person I am now began when I was about 13. Long story short, I was uncool, but I had a friend who was very attached to me. He wanted me to be cool, was very persistent, insulting and hurt me over time. The constant insults and his statements of how "inferior" I was really were a blow to my self esteem. Especially since I genuinely believed he was well meaning.
Anyway, when I left that school and this episode (which I regarded as a fluke) I resumed to my happy go-lucky self and was great socially. Then my grades dropped and I don't know but I flipped, being unhappy was no longer a fluke it was a reality.
From then I've been on/off, trying to figure myself out. trying to FIGURE OUT, what I want, how I should act around people. I went through a suicidal phase, a 'everyone does things for their own good' phase etc.. Which had nasty effects trying to get aquainted with people since I was so self-conscious (I hate showing 'weakness' in public, even though it just makes it worse).
Since then, I've pretty much abandoned any sense of morals. But I do believe in stability and decency now. I understand things better now, I used to consider anyone "evil" or stupid to be inferior (without explicity thinking it, I was very PC), now I think I understand those people better.

Not sure if that's what you're looking for but there you go!

"Durch Nacht und Blut das Licht"

it was a slow process starting out in sixth grade or so (around pueberty) but i think the biggest change thus far occurred during tenth grade for me. it was my first official year of high school (9th was still jr high) my friends had all split up, things were a bit rough within my family. by 11th grade i was more sarcastic and cold hearted than i had ever been in my entire life. however, at this point in my life i feel that i have gone back to being in touch with my morals and values, perhaps they have changed, but at least i have them again! but to answer your question directly, i was about 15 or 16 years old.

this was a tough question, i hope my answer is what your looking for.

"I am Akba-Atatdia"

Although the title is quite direct, I actually worded the question sort of incorectly (or too vaguely).

There is loss of innocence, but then there is a part of that which is when you alter yourself in order to either fit in, or cope with the lack of genuinity you are bound to encounter in your life.

For example, when I meet people nowadays I find them so pretentious. And I do think a lot of people feel uneasy around me because I don't say or react to things in a pretentious way. I don't laugh if it isn't funny, and I don't "need" to be around people in order to feel complete.

BUT, this comes and goes. Sometimes I go through phases where I fit in, but then in retrospect its so obvious I wasn't being me.

So as i said in another post, I sort of have a failsafe method that protects me, but I don't think many people do. I know people who have gone through changes that make the original them unreconizable.

So my question is geared more towards conformity. Do you realize when you go out and put makeup on that there was once a time you would go out without anythign and be totally cool with that? Or dress real nice, or wear gel, or bullshit?

I mean, there was a time when it was morally important for you to be able to share your inner thoughts (and all of them) with people, but I don't think anyone does that anymore.

So, when did THAT change?

I think Wyote answered it pretty on the dot. DumbTeen, you're still dealing with it (as I am, I think).

I think you're always dealing with it if you don't lose sight of what you are in front of people, and what you are alone. What thoughts occur, how you act, how you sing, how you dance.

"Hating everyone protects me from elitism."

i do see this as being a cyclical thing for me in the future (altho im trying to deny it) right now i could care less what people think of me, but this in turn causes me to feel out of sync with the rest of the world. maintaining a balance seems to be a good thing to strive for, as opposed to going back and forth from one extreme to the other... but in doing so i would lose a part of my original self... why must you make me think so hard Decius?

"I am Akba-Atatdia"

That happened for me roughly the same time as my loss of innocence really. I'd say around 15... mainly because I was a bit lost, didn't know what I wanted and thought it best to fit in and have friends.

"Durch Nacht und Blut das Licht"

MIA: BANG ON. That's exactly what I was talking about.

Acceptance of lies is such a HUGE thing of it. Lying yourself is so HUGE. People lie all the time. Lying wasn't good when you were younger, but now you lie and it's okay. I'm probably lying right now and I don't realize it.

I'm just eternally baffled at how un-idealistic the world is compared to how it was supposed to look when i was a kid.

"Hating everyone protects me from elitism."

yea, definately Mia... and thanks Decius ...even though i still have a headache from thinking about it...

"I am Akba-Atatdia"

hey guys

just thought id add my two cents here maybe add a new dimension to the discussion.

I think perhaps part of this is a battle between our instincts and our thoughts. Two totally different things.

It is our instinct to be mentally aware of our self image and our reputation. Because Throughout the majority of human existant this has been crucial to our survival.

But physcilogically we know that becoming more popular wont make us any happier or self fulfilled.

This is what someone described before as, they go through stages (somtimes they self fulfilled by themselves, othertime they are depressed and just want to be popular).

Its a battle, and i think any many ways, society, and the way our current society is structed, does not deal with this issue very well. I could certainly give alot of examples here.

And thanks Decius for bringing up the lies thing. I agree with you there it is very true and also very common. You cannot lie to your heart. A very good book to read which talks about this is called "beyond the veil" by Pauline Grogan incase any of you felt like doing a bit of night time reading

When push comes to shove, I don't necessarily think there is a way to put values above survival. "Fight or flight" instinct can take automatic precidence over your morals.

Furthermore, eople with idealistic views of the world actually may be looking at the world in the best light possible. True, idealism and pragmatism usually conflict, but often we should strive for the best possible. This often includes looking to some unattainable and getting as close as we possibly can.

Also, loss of idealism doesn't really come with age. Before you can know circumstances outside yourself, your morals are severely limited. Children may say "We want world peace," but they cannot even understand the concept. Cognition of the world around you can bring both pragmatism and idealism, but before an age of reason, neither of these qualities matters much.

""The truth to be fair is that dreaming was the first mistake.""

This may sound a little strange, but I think it happened to me around 7 or 8. It happened one day after cutting the grass(I think I had just turned 8). I forgot to put up the mower, so I had the T.V. taken away from me for a day. I think it was pretty reasonable. But then, when my stepdad brought it in, he noticed it wasn't working right. He checked it, and found that water had leaked into it and messed it up (cheap mower I'll bet). So after he sat me down and talked about responsibility, he added more to my punishment, saying I couln't watch T.V. for a month. That is when it hit me. That people in this world are stupid. He didn't punish me because he felt it would teach me a lesson, believe me I had already learned it, he punished me because that's just what you do when something bad happens, try your best to make sure SOMEONE, guilty or not, is punished. He and I both knew it was my fault for leaving the mower out, but it was NOT my fault that it had rained. This is when I came up with my motto on life:

The world is full of stupid, unreasonable ideas, rules and decisions, in which I no longer want to be a part of.

"My drum skills > Your drum skills"

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"Life is such sweet sorrow."

how it is depends on perspective that can change, n you cant be shy or woerd etc alone, cause its just normal yourself its only in accordance with interax=ction human vibes where you can be labeled ow you are in that.. anyway everybody as humans has morals weather they show it or not, ev1 feels bad when see somthing considered wrongf where its nott addresed.. so you do something considered bad youl either get reaction or emotion (type of reaction0 and i one is smalletr the other is stronger obviously.. its al a part odf life wether you love hate it etc.. including you adressing this siode itall pat of the whole paictuare..k,

"no quote until i copyright it.."

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"Life is such sweet sorrow."

I was reading David Humes, Dialogues of Natural Religion...part 7, Philo and Cleanthes were having a discussion about how the way the world is so mechanically set up,and so precise and detailed, and Philo, who was arguing against the idea of that completely relating to god (because, like causes prove like effect, saying if god made this world, his mind,and his being must be similar to it) well anyways, there this passage, and i quote "In short, the world seems to bear a stronger resemblance to a vegetable than an animal" and this one line, hit me so strongly, because i had been reading this book for a couple hours at this time, seriously contemplating it, and this one line just hit me as so humorous, because this book, is supposed to be very insightful, and conversations between very insightful philosophers...i just started laughing uncontrollablly, very loudly in the library, people were looking at me, but i didnt care, because that line, made me realize, that we dont know where this world came from, so we dont know how life started ,so if we dont know the foundation, how do we know anything at all? who are we to place morals,and reason on anything, if we dont even know the ultimate cause of how everything came to be...its all so pointless.

""That all knowledge begins with experience, there can be no doubt...""