Getting along with stupid/bullheaded people

Getting along with stupid/bullheaded people [+ favourites]

I think one my biggest falalcies is my innability to empathize, respect, and understand a stupid/ignorant person.

What I mean by stupid/ignorant very specifically is someone who is not "Aware" of themselves enough to question their actions or beliefs.

So for example, if someone is driving slow in the left lane and is blocking loads of traffic, most of the time they have no idea what they are doing.

And I hate them for it. but I shouldn't, because they aren't evil, they just don't understand. But I still feel like stabbing them in the neck with a pencil.

How do you cope? I'm sure in the workplace people are confronted with these things on a much more intimate level and it must be even more challenging.

What about bullheaded people? That is a lack of awareness too.. a lack of comprehension and a lack of open mindedness, but again, they don't CHOOSE to be stupid and closed minded, it is just the way they are. But why do I feel the need to explain things to them?

Why is it that we feel a need to change/fix/react to people who are less aware, and make them more aware?

Anyone got any tips on how to let it go and not attempt to do this?

"Hating everyone protects me from elitism."

I think maybe people should work on anger management and uuummm what happen to an open mind.
Who are you to say anyone is stupid or ignorant.
From talking to you in past convos. you kinda described yourself. You are so close minded, oh my gosh I still cant believe how you reacted to a tv show.

"Why try so hard to fit in when you were born to stand out!!"

umm...err....Brann....this is still called Captain CYNIC is it not?
We don't need to define Cynic do we?
I think this thread is a duplicate of the What I hate about people thread. But I'll post anyway.
I do have alot of "anger issues", but they are all in direct relation to the "stupid/bullheaded" people. In a sense though, Brann is right, if we as "stupid/bullheaded" people haters, hate those people we are being as little closed minded; I can handle that though.

"I'd like to say something profound....."SOMETHING PROFOUND""

See, I know that because of my getting angry I actually find it even more difficult to get my point accross because I begin making people feel small... which isn't really my intention. Of course my intention is to get them to see my point of view.. and when it seems obvious to me I get frustrated.

Any ideas how to overcome the frustration?

"Hating everyone protects me from elitism."

You see, your point of view isnt always right, mine isnt always right and you havent made me feel small, I dont let people do that to me. I rise above it!! To get above your frustration RISE ABOVE IT and REALIZE not everyones opinion is right. If you have a valid fact then your right.

"Why try so hard to fit in when you were born to stand out!!"

Brann, this post has very little to do with you, so you don't have to respond in a personal way.

Opinions are merged with logic... I hope I don't have to explain the basis of a logical argument.

There is one truth, not multiple truths, and bullheadedness gets in the way of getting to that truth.

So the problem is when I'm on this path to the truth, and i'm trying to pull this other person on the same path and they keep turning back because they are pig-headed, what's something I can say/convince myself to let it be and proceed independantly?

I know I can "decide" to, but it's hard once I'm in the middle of a conversation.

But I guess I just answered my own question.

To try harder, and realize sooner that the person doesn't want to reach the truth with me, they want to express their opinions unchallenged.

And you're right wes, this is exactly like the other post. My bad.

"Hating everyone protects me from elitism."

I hope I am getting what you are trying to say... here goes...

If you are speaking about a logical argumant. Then there is no room for pigheadedness. The answer is either logical or illogical. There is just stupidity. If a person can't get the logic behind something then they are just plain stupid not close minded or pig headed.

So I believe the logical thing to do as this is taught to us as children, if you are stupid (ie when children do something stupid as in bad or hurtful to themselves or others) you get slapped or hit in some way to try to teach you the right from the wrong or the logic from the illogical (not really the same but for my point it is)

So the question is Decius. If the person being illogical (stupid) and they will not listen to the logic (truth) HIT THEM!

W ould you hit someone for being stupid and make them listen to the truth once you have thier attention or would you walk away leaving them just as stupid and illogical as before you met?

"I will not persist! I've had it!"

To find the truth you need to pool your information together so that each side knows where you are coming from. Then each side states their own opinion. Then the sides question each others sides ideas to see if it can be credible.

The problem is that instead of questioning each others side to mold together the truth, everyone just fights each other and no one can come to a conclusion.

The solution would be that even if you do completly disagree with someone, everyone has to agree to allow everyone to give their argument first, then let each person question the other. If we do it in an orderly fashion, we might be able to find some truth.

The reason no one thinks they are wrong is because everyone is debating in the wrong manner. No one is stating whether someone has proof or if they are just stating an opinion. And when someone say something, people usually take it as an opinion even if the person can prove it, only because the person never said he could.

In short, the solution should be: better organization and everyone should speak more clearly.

"If the opposite of Pro is Con, then is the opposite of Progress, Congress?"

Problem is Dug, the people I am talking to are not going to heed your advice even if I do (another aspect of idealism VS reality)

And Green, I agree with everything you said in some cases... in some cases people are incapable of comprehending your logic, but I think in most cases they simply don't want to.

Hitting people would be good, but then whos to decide who should hit who? I'm sure I seem as bullheaded (even though I think I'm being logical) as I think they are.

"Hating everyone protects me from elitism."

Here's an idea.. lets jot down methods of discussion that would improve everyone's ability to talk about things in an orderly fashion. Here's a few I made up, let me know what you think:

1. Answer and address every question/statement a person makes in his/her post. Do not ignore anything. Read it twice to make sure you covered everything. This will not only help the discussion progress faster but also declare that you respect the other person enough to read their entire post thoroughly.

2. Do not nit-pick. By this I mean do not declare the person's entire post irrelevent just because they "may" have made one mistake or used a word they shouldn't have. I find a lot of people do this in order to extend the argument or provide a counter argument. A way to overcome this is to address every individual point directly.

3. Instead of declaring the opposite view of someone you don't agree with, don't declare your opinion. Instead, ask the person stating their opinion/statement to qualify their statement. Ask them questions that you think are relevent in order to either help their statement make sense to you, or prove the fallacy in their own words.

4. Do not argue about semantics. If you understand what another person "intends" to say with what they say, clarify and move on. Do not base an entire argument on the definition of a word, or a wrong definition.

5. Similar to #3, if you do not understand someone's view and therefore do not agree, ask them questions about the reasons why they believe what they believe. Figure out how they concluded what they did. Everyone has reasoning behind their conclusions... some of us are better at sharing these than others.

how am I doing?

"Hating everyone protects me from elitism."
[  Edited by Decius at   ]

your not doing to badly...


I'll have to get back to you....

"I will not persist! I've had it!"

Decius,

I think these are great ideas, or 'rules for a good debate'. I have seen both kinds of people in debates here and love it when I can have a debate about 'whatever' with someone who holds these kind of things dear. Although I have to admit that I fall into the trap on occasion.

"I'd like to say something profound....."SOMETHING PROFOUND""

Okay, I hereby vow to totally and completely ignore anyone that fails to follow these simple rules.

I won't say anything, i will simply ignore them from that point forward. They can address me, ask me, insult me, and I will ignore them.

I don't care if you're a nazi, if you discuss with those rules, I will be very friendly and completely open minded.

"Hating everyone protects me from elitism."

4. Speak personally about what you feel,
acknowledge when the other person makes a valid point and
agree to differ if you cannot agree, and please stick to the matter in hand.

"I'd like to say something profound....."SOMETHING PROFOUND""

Can't say I agree with that one entirely wes.

Speaking personally tends to include less logic than speaking impersonally.

I agree you should acknowledge a valid point, definitely.

I do not think you should agree to dissagree... in essence, if you follow the proper rules, you should be able to come to a joint conclusion rather easily.

I do agree, stick to the matter at hand.

"Hating everyone protects me from elitism."