America, Americans and Patriotism

America, Americans and Patriotism [+ favourites]

I find that a lot of time people such as myself who have a definite problem with political America discuss these touchy issues with people who are patriotic about being American, they seem offended by my words.

I think it is somewhat my fault for not anticipating this and specifying that I believe in two distinct "parties" in USA.

There are the People, and then there are the Corporations. The people are good. I like American people. I have a lot of American friends, most of the revenue from UGN is earned through selling things to Americans, and I have basically no problem with Americans. I never have. I mean, it's ludicrous for me to have to explain this because Americans are people, just like Canadians just like Japanese just like Germans. People are people. And I generally love people.

Then there is America, Corporations, Politicians. Every encounter I have had with business America sickens me. Corporate America believes in one thing: Maximizing Profit, increasing stocks. This comes through reductions in burger sizes, more preservatives so the food will last longer so there is less need to transport that often. This manifests itself in bugs left in software to be found at a later time for the sole purpose of enticing people to purchase new versions.

Do patiots not realize there is a very large difference between their innocence and the cruelty of Corporate America? That their health decreases, that they kill each other, that their children drink polluted water, that their sons and daughters die in wars solely to maximize profit?

The very television, internet and radio that the People hear watch and read is controlled by Corporate America. The less aware the People are of their actions, the easier it is to steer their beliefs. If they believe through their pure intentions that what Corporate America is doing is the moral thing to do, then they will support it through very little fault of their own.

To understand the decisions made that run the country, you have to understand who runs the country. The person that runs the country is mathematically the person who has the most money (or at least one of the two people that have the most money). You cannot win a presidential election without money. That is a pure unquestioned fact.

How do you suppose a politician gets money? They dont work for it, they don't earn it. They have sponsorship... they are bought. That is the nature of the elections in the US. If your politicians are bought, how could they possibly prioritize the People's well being over the people that put them in office? The people that put them in office are the ones with all the money... and the ones with all the money are Corporate America.

There are two distinct classes in USA now, even though it may not be readily apparent. There is the high class, and the rest of the people. The high class are the corporations, exactly like the rich people in olden times and their goal is to herd the People to do what is most benefitial for them. They have no moral obligation.

The main point I'm trying to make is the reason people like myself get very passionate and even irritated during discussions is that in essence, the reason we are arguing is to open up your mind to the very possibility that what we are saying is true, because in some incidences it is completely true. And with this miss-placed patriotism many loyal Americans seem to believe they are protecting the country they love... when in actuality they are protecting and defending the Corporations. The People are suffering, and the People are what makes America.

The People are the priority, and their needs should be looked after first. Defend the People, not a Corporate America that is masked as "The US of A".

Do you love your flag or the people who live in your country? That is a question you should ask yourself.

What does it mean to be a Patriot?

"Hating everyone protects me from elitism."

Good point Decius,
Ralph Nader has spent part of his life taking on the corporations. Many of our corporations (the few or many that are based in the US) could care less about us as Americans. The bottom line IS! profit or the bottom line. And President Clinton asked what does "is" mean. There might not be an easy answer!
Eldred

Reality counts. I want an administration that fights "real" terroists and "home grown criminals." Dubya doesn't seem to get it. I'm not going to explain. Decius, the next administration, will determine alot about your life and mine. Your young and I'm not. A terroist could ship in a nuke (shipping container: only 2% checked) to any major port in America and blow up a city like Houston or Boston! We're &*^%$#! We can't sustain a loss like that, so let's not let it happen. I SUPPORT A TICKET LIKE "Gebhardt/Leiberman"! Hope everyone will do likewise!
Eldred Reaney

Im learning how much of an American bashing site this is. You dont want to be bashed do you. Lately all this is, is about how bad America is. Well we have it pretty good. If you live here and wanta be a hater fine but, if you dont then you dont know much about us except what the MEDIA has to say......hummmmm!!

"Why try so hard to fit in when you were born to stand out!!"

Brann,
I think that the reality of it is not that this is an America-bashing website, but that the ones that are arguing FOR America don't have good arguements to enlighten people. If that's not the case then all of those that have positive things to say should SPEAK UP NOW!
These people who remain silent, or just respond with random generalizations, should express themselves CLEARLY.
I say this because I know that there are several people on this site that SHOULD be in here debating that aren't: Walts, BMX, you, etc.
We can make this less one-sided IF people would express there opinions in fact-based-stable ways, don't you agree?

"I'd like to say something profound....."SOMETHING PROFOUND""

The reason this site is anti-american is because the current american administration is god-awful. Two wars with little or no motif that are sure to stir more arab terrorists to bomb the US. A tax cut that ignores the poor people.

Now everything isn't picture perfect in Europe either. The italians are lead by a megacorporate, France's president would be convicted if the president wasn't immune to the law... But still, America is getting the spotlight for being bad because Bush really is manipulating the US people and using anti-evil righteous rhetoric.

"AIDS is God's way of sending Catholics to heaven."

Nearly 5 percent of the earth’s inhabitants live in the United States. Historically, this nation has attracted vast numbers of immigrants from around the globe.
~~~~If America is so bad why do all the immigrants want to be here. Why do people risk there lives to live in the United States?????~~~~

As president, Bush faced the challenges of global terrorism. After the September 11 attacks, he declared a war against terrorism, pledging to defeat those who threatened the security of the United States. Bush led a coalition of countries into Afghanistan to topple the Taliban government, which had harbored al-Qaeda, the international terrorist network responsible for the September 11 attacks. He also joined with allies to fight a war in Iraq to remove president Saddam Hussein from power. Domestically Bush confronted a slowing economy, and he successfully advocated for tax cuts in an effort to stimulate economic growth.
~~~Just some facts on Bush~~~


we are a country awakened to danger and called to defend freedom. Our grief has turned to anger, and anger to resolution. Whether we bring our enemies to justice, or bring justice to our enemies, justice will be done.
~~~Would your countrey not be angered??~~~~


The United States respects the people of Afghanistan -- after all, we are currently its largest source of humanitarian aid -- but we condemn the Taliban regime.
~~~See we arent all that bad. We DO help other countries. I dont think we are perfect but we should get credit not put down when we try to help people.

"Why try so hard to fit in when you were born to stand out!!"

Did you not understand the purpose of my post?

Did any of you even answer it?

You're responding to a completely off topic comment made by Brann which is completely unfounded because my post does not even bash Americans.

To keep these threads targeted we should all try to respond specifically in ways that relate to the initial post and what it was trying to achieve.

"Hating everyone protects me from elitism."

Decius, you are right we all tend to stray off topic but to some extent it is necessary as these topics don't exist in a vacumn. At times the initial poiint of the thread leads to opinions which illciet(sp) response which is a primary objective as well.

quote:

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Historically, this nation has attracted vast numbers of immigrants from around the globe.

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quote:

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-- after all, we are currently its largest source of humanitarian aid --

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"Terrorist or tyrant, few may come to the Truth that both are poor choice."

I'am from Lithunia , Europe , I agree with everythink what america do is correct as freedom is basic to that people who lives in these countries . My future profession is army jet pilot , and if some day will be a war , I'am ready to loose my life for freedom , as we knows what's is a freedom , our country is free from russian 14 years already , and what did that comunist busters to us to my father family they will get back someday , people who are free soon forget that is feeling to be a prison in your country , who disagree with me should visit russian Kaliningrad , or Belarus Minsk , should see everythink and than to talk obout it.
Darius

"jarod1983us@yahoo.com"

i had a thought about this, america is clearly a good country, even a great country perhaps, the thing is it could still be a LOT better. corporate america does screw us over continually, with little to no protest from the general public. just the other day i read about a new chip being installed in new computers that will prevent people from dowloading programs without having proper authorization. naturally compananies will charge outragous amounts for the authorization and america will perhaps protest a little but eventually give in and simply pay the extra amount. i dont think it bothers us to much because we all live such a frikkin lavish life to begin with. extremely "poor" people here live even better than a lot of "rich" people do in other countries, its ridiculous.

"UNIX is an operating system, OS/2 is half an operating system, Windows is a shell, and DOS is a boot partition virus. ~Peter H. Coffin"

Decius - How did I miss this? I didn't know you weren't American? No matter. I'M AN AMERICAN, proud of this country. Me and others here have served this country in the military. I can only speak for myself, but you have never insulted me, and I AM AN AMERICAN.

I've studied a little bit on the subject. Originally, companies, businesses and corporations were to serve the public for payment for their freedom to profit. Money talks, and it did, louder than the American people. A constitutional amendment had been written giving corporations, businesses and companies citizenship. So they have as much right as a person now. This is the argument they will use in court and often do when a citizen action group attacks them. In a legal manner using them high powered words, they will claim to be a minority practicing their constitutional rights, so often using this argument, the will of the people is defeated so that a corporation has the right to make a profit. This is not America, this is Corporatioa, and it has to change. If we are truly America, we will fight to free the American from Corporates right to make a profit which was originally only a privilege, not a right.

For those who think the American way is being attacked, you will find most of them never served in the military. They are your rich and upper middle class who profited along with Corporatioa. Until they look outside the box they are living in, they will never know. Unfortunately as the ranks of the upper middle class dwindle, more and more are beginning to see, and those unfortunately stricken by maladies at birth or cancer from poisons Corporatioa have failed to properly dispose of for profits sake.

I think more and more people are beginning to see. I think we're going to see a change. It will be a fight though. Fall 2004 is predicted to be pretty bad.

"A fool says I know and a wise man says I wonder."

Thats why you should make up your own ideals, and fight for your own ideals, not mindlessly help others with their ideals.

When people serve the military, its for 1 (or more) of 3 reason:

They want experience / Honor
They are fighting mindlessly for corporations
They are fighting for their ideals and want to try and make a impact.

Well, thats what i think anywayz

"No matter how fast light thinks it is, it will always find that Drakness has beaten it and is already waiting..."

Well, I'm glad you saw the main point my my post Okcity.

The common man is being bamboozled by propaganda by the corporation, making them think that doing the things they are doing are:

1. The best they can get
2. The best for them
3. The best for the country

Which is all actially just best for the consumer market.

"Hating everyone protects me from elitism."

Ya, I remember the good ole dazes, when autos were few & real high priced, at least a couple of hundred but then they were made to last a life time! Being so expensive they had to be in order for those who could afford them to make this once in life time purchase (like a house). But even back then we knew they were holing out on us, that they could build cars that pratically never would break down. So we have public highways instead of public conveyences (trains, etc.as Japan did) Why would we blame corporate america, they are the source of our highly reguarded wealth? What should we liik a gift horse in the mouth?

"Terrorist or tyrant, few may come to the Truth that both are poor choice."