Articles | Forums | Polls | Quotes | Who's Online | Store
Signup | Lost Password
"In fantasy versus reality, reality always prevails" - Mountain Girl
Main -> Social Awareness -> Politics and Current Events  | NewPosts

March 17th

USER THREAD
SITE ADMIN
2810 Posts / 89M
     :   28yrs   :  
Decius

March 17th [+ favourites]

So lets get it out in the open. And lets all be very descriptive about our opinions, with open minds and no exclamation marks.

1. What do you think will happen?
2. What do you hope happens?
3. What do you think the result will be?

I am throwing in a few clips from MSN's website:

quote:
A U.N. resolution needs nine of 15 votes to pass, with no vetoes from any of the five permanent members. Six nations — Angola, Chile, Cameroon, Guinea, Mexico and Pakistan — are undecided about the resolution.
It is backed by Britain, the United States, Spain and Bulgaria. France, Russia, China, Germany and Syria oppose it.

quote:
But in Britain where less than 20 percent of the population back war without U.N. authority, Blair is under intense pressure to pursue the second resolution.

quote:
President Jacques Chirac told Blair by phone on Friday that France was ready to work on finding ways to disarm Iraq but again rejected any talk of an ultimatum, a spokeswoman said.
She said France was ready to discuss proposals under which U.N. arms inspections could be halted before the end of a 120-day period, which Paris has until now backed. The two leaders spoke by telephone.
In London, a spokesman for Blair said Chirac “insisted there were no circumstances that France would countenance a new resolution that authorized or implied military action.”
Russia added to Britain’s headaches when Deputy Foreign Minister Yuri Fedotov told Interfax news agency that Blair’s proposed amendments were not constructive and would not avert war.

quote:
Iraq destroyed four Al Samoud missiles at a military base north of Baghdad on Friday, bringing to 65 the number of prohibited rockets scrapped this month on U.N. orders.


Some other interesting facts:

Some American restaurants (including the white house cafeteria) have renamed French fries to freedom fries, even though french fries are actually from belgium.

The US offered Turkey a sizable sum of money (upwards of 2 billion dollars) to support the war, but in vain. Turkey openly protests any military involvement of USA in Iraq.

And my opinion:

I believe the United Nations were created post-word war 2 specifically to keep the best interests of the world in mind. I believe that individual nations should not affect other nations without the approval of the UN for the stability of all nations. Therefore, a war on iraq is irrelevent to me...what is relevent is the possibility of Bush proceeding with a war without UN consent, which I would be very very worried about.

I mean, if you compromise the UN once, what's to stop you from doing it again? Vetos are part of it, and France as as much right as USA does. They are the rules that were created years ago, and I think every nation on the planet should abide by them.

Thats my two cents. I hope nothing bad happens this week.


"Hating everyone protects me from elitism."

286 Posts / 68M
     :   31yrs   :  
Kookiekruncher

Ok here goes

Do the job right the first time

You pull that gun you better be prepared to use it. That should have been done and completed the first time and we wouldn't be going through this mess again. What's next? Looks like North Korea is going to be next.

That is my opinion and I'm sticking to it


"Treat everyone as you would want to be treated"

SITE ADMIN
2810 Posts / 89M
     :   28yrs   :  
Decius

So you're for or against it Kookie?


"Hating everyone protects me from elitism."

SITE ADMIN
2810 Posts / 89M
     :   28yrs   :  
Decius

REASONS TO STOP THE WAR

1. Iraq's weapons of mass destruction have been destroyed and Iraq is not a military threat
Ex-weapons inspector Scott Ritter wrote, "… From a qualitative standpoint, Iraq has in fact been disarmed... The chemical, biological, nuclear and long-range ballistic missile programs that were a real threat in 1991 had, by 1998, been destroyed or rendered harmless." [Boston Globe op-ed (3/9/00)]
“Iraq today is no longer a military threat to anyone. Intelligence agencies know this. All the conjectures about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq lack evidence.” [Hans von Sponeck, UN humanitarian coordinator, 29 May 2001]

2. Attacking Iraq will not reduce that threat of terrorist attacks to the U.S.
Although the current military action planned against Iraq is being pursued as part of the war on terrorism, there has been no evidence presented that Iraq is supporting or harbouring terrorists.
The War on Terrorism is a war against independent militia groups and individuals, not entire nations. There is no need to destroy whole nations or depose the leaders of these countries.
Addressing the long-term grievances against the United States that give rise to terrorist attacks (such as the sanctions on Iraq, U.S. bases in Saudi Arabia, and the Israeli/Palestinian conflict) will lead to long-term peace. Fighting wars against nations will increase underlying anger at the United States and increase the risk for terrorist attacks.

3. Iraq WILL allow weapons inspectors:
Rather than working in good faith to reintroduce UN inspectors as a means to disarm Iraq and lift sanctions, the U.S. administration appears to be (once again) using UN inspections as a trigger for a U.S. military assault -- this time intent on removing Saddam Hussein from power. In a Feb. 13 analysis, David E. Sanger of the New York Times asserts that the Bush team plans to create an inspection crisis between now and May. They would then use the crisis as proof that Iraq is hiding weapons of mass destruction, and use Iraqi resistance to justify more forceful action.
"A team of nuclear experts is due to arrive in Baghdad for an annual inspection of Iraq's uranium stockpiles." [CNN.com, January 25, 2002]
"Iraq will still need to allow the return of 687 inspectors before sanctions can be lifted. This, of course, means the US and the UN would have to be willing to run a legitimate inspection program, and also be willing to allow sanctions to be lifted -- per UN resolutions --once a clean bill of health was issued. Given the US policy of removing Saddam, this seems highly unlikely at this time." [Scott Ritter, former chief of the Concealment Investigations Unit for the UN Special Commission on Iraq.]


4. As for the people of Iraq ...

During the Gulf War, between 2,500 and 3,500 civilians were killed in the bombing campaign. After, the civilian death toll rose to 110,000 people killed due to the destruction of Iraq's civilian infrastructure. [War and Public Health, American Public Health Association, 2000]
Under the 88,500 tons of bombs (the equivalent of seven Hiroshimas) that followed the launch of the air campaign on January 17, 1991, and the ground attack that followed, fully 150,000 Iraqi troops and 50,000 civilians were killed. [Z-Magazine, David Edwards, February 28, 2002]
For almost 11 years, the Iraqi civilian population has been suffering from the most draconian and prolonged economic sanctions imposed by the United Nations. One-fourth of Iraqi children under the age of five are malnourished and there has been a 160 percent rise in Iraq's infant mortality rate since 1991 [UN Report, March 1999].


5. International opposition to an attack on Iraq
"The United States is preparing to destroy the regime of Saddam Hussein. The timetable is flexible but will be dictated by America's strategic and military readiness and by nothing else, certainly not by righteous whisperings from Brussels to Berlin. The goal is fixed." ('To Free Iraq Blair must prepare party and country for military action,' the Times, February 15, 2002)
"There is not a single Arab country which backs a recourse to force against Iraq, and all are preoccupied by the lot of the Iraqi people." [Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak, November 10, 2001]
"...Any attack on Iraq at this stage would be unwise." [UN secretary general, Kofi Annan, February 25, 2002]
"Russian President Vladimir Putin said Thursday that the United States had no basis to extend the war against terrorism to Iraq." [Judith Ingram, Associated Press Writer, Feb 14,2002]



For Further Information
Visit the Coalition Against the War on the People of Iraq Website at www.geocities.com/stopthewaroniraq.

This document is based on a flyer from www.stopthewaragainstiraq.org. It has been modified with permission.


"Hating everyone protects me from elitism."

1682 Posts / 83M
     :   38yrs   :  
walts

I am all for it.

I agree completly with what kookie had to say, if we would have just finished the job when we (I) was over there 10 years ago we wouldnt be going through all this again.

Bush has my backing.


"Have you thanked a Vet for your freedom lately?"

SITE ADMIN
2810 Posts / 89M
     :   28yrs   :  
Decius

Glad to know you made a conscienscous decision based on facts walts.


"Hating everyone protects me from elitism."

AUTHOR
310 Posts / 89M
     :   30yrs   :  
rollergirl

i'm proud to be a canadian. our government has stated that we aren't going to support the US without the backing of the UN, and i couldn't be more pleased.


"get busy livin' or get busy dyin'..."

196 Posts / 89M
     :   26yrs   :  
dingleberry6

Well YEEEE HAW walts! I'm with ya pardner! Lets kill em damn 'raqis fer not been good ole american! dere's a little american in all of em sand monkeys, just waitin ta git out!

yeee haw! yall wanna join me and walts cruise the farms with shottys and beer? YEE HAW!


"Avoid the mantlepiece when you're poking the fire"

196 Posts / 89M
     :   26yrs   :  
dingleberry6

On another note, one of the main countries that disobeyed the UN (or league of nations back then) were Nazis!

Nazis! Yall wanna be nazis with me and walts? YEE HAW!


"Avoid the mantlepiece when you're poking the fire"

AUTHOR
310 Posts / 89M
     :   30yrs   :  
rollergirl

"The leader of genius must have the ability to make different opponents appear as if they belonged to one category."

-Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf


"get busy livin' or get busy dyin'..."

196 Posts / 89M
     :   26yrs   :  
dingleberry6

We're gunna cruise lookin fer chicks, me and walts...so saddle up pardner and join us on our way to the family reunion!

ALSO, did you know that 80% of england is opposed to the war? About 5 cabinet ministers have resigned their posts in england.

Henceforth, we have the support of spain! SPAIN! everyone else thinks its a mucho bad idea


"Avoid the mantlepiece when you're poking the fire"

1682 Posts / 83M
     :   38yrs   :  
walts

decius,
I did make my decision on facts. I made it from personal and first hand experience on that I know Saddaam is blowing smoke up every ones ass's and stalling them. I was in Desert Storm and I know what he is capable of and will do and he has had time to build on his army and he knows how the US operates and wont be caught off guard this time. Not that it will do him much good as we or still better equiped and maned but he has chemical weapons that he will use.

When I was in Desert Storm I was around when he launched missles with chemicals in them. They never got to hit there target as our missles toke them out way up in the air so the chemicals didnt have an affect on us but he still has them and will use them and he has had ten years to make and get more deadly chemicals.

Dont let Saddaam fool you, he has and will use every thing in his arsinal.


"Have you thanked a Vet for your freedom lately?"

SITE ADMIN
2810 Posts / 89M
     :   28yrs   :  
Decius

walts:

What you are talking about is not recorded anywhere...there were no records of chemical weapons ever being fired by Saddam. I don't know whether this was an assumption made by you or who you were with, but it isn't factual.

The main concern with Saddam is that weapon inspectors (in the early 90s) found numerous uranium processing plants as well as ingredients used to make chemical weapons and anthrax. Saddam was very adamant about hiding these places and ingredients.

I think you missed a quote I put up:

quote:
Ex-weapons inspector Scott Ritter wrote, "… From a qualitative standpoint, Iraq has in fact been disarmed... The chemical, biological, nuclear and long-range ballistic missile programs that were a real threat in 1991 had, by 1998, been destroyed or rendered harmless." [Boston Globe op-ed (3/9/00)]


Although I respect your words walts, I think I choose to believe the words of someone who is actually fully knowledgable about the arms situationin Iraq.

I'm not saying that war isn't the right choice...I'm saying war is definitely not a necessity right now. There is no proof that Saddam has any weapons, and even if he does, inspectors have not finnished their jobs.


"Hating everyone protects me from elitism."

2030 Posts / 74M
     :   32yrs   :  
pv_emerald14

Question for you Decius, just because it isn't recorded that chemical missions were fired by Saddam 10 yrs ago does that mean that it's not true that it didn't happen? There are many things that happen that we are not told about.


""Live life to the fullest!""

1682 Posts / 83M
     :   38yrs   :  
walts

Believe what you want. I was there and I know what I know. It wasnt public knowledge that we had to take anthrax shots and pills every day to counter any missles or release of any anthrax that Saddam had.

There is a lot of stuff that still isnt public knowledge that I know and still cant say or talk about. I also know chemicals were released while I was there, trust you me on that and thats all I can say about it.

As far as those mass destruction missles. He still has them and do you think he would store them where it was obvious where they would be? No he knew right where the inspectors would look and they are in under ground bunkers that no one knows about. He has hundreds of them and some of them we found in Desert Storm and blew up but who knows how many more we didnt find or that he has built since. Most of them can with stand a direct hit from our missles and still not penatrate them.

Once again, and I will say it again, he has every one fooled and is telling every one what they want to hear. He has them and will use them. As far as the inpectors go, they have finished there job as they have been ordered out, if we wait that just gives him more time to build his arsinal until it will be even harder to stop him.

Bush is doing the right thing and isnt listening to any of his hog wash that he has the rest of the world fooled into believing.


"Have you thanked a Vet for your freedom lately?"

March 17th
A1F1T0T1T2T3T4T5T6T7T8T9T10T11T12T13T14T15T16